Filum Romanum - A Thread for the Catholic Church

If you want to have a conversation about that then go for it, make a post about it and start the discussion, but don't try and hijack another discussion about something separate.

I mean I don't really see what there is to discuss, it's a pretty simple discussion we've had dozens of time, he let me have the discussion for you.

"These horrible things have been done in the Catholic Church's name and it has never accepted responsibility for them"
"That's horrible and it should take responsibility, even if not for the actions then for failing to prevent them and not helping empower the people who did them"
"Agreed"

Well that was fun, we all good now?

I'm evil.

Well, at the moment, I cannot help but pin lion's share of the blame at the RCC for the population crisis in the Philippines.

At the very least, they are very big stumbling block. I'd have to avoid any priest or nun making "you are going to hell" lectures; otherwise, I may end up punching them in the face.

Yeah, I wish I live in a country where abortion or even just abortion pills were easily available. At the very least, I wouldn't have to worry about the RCC derailing the already hampered birth control law.

edited 28th Aug '15 1:38:48 AM by probablyinsane

Interestingly, Japan succeeded at what the RCC always failed; making people completely uninterested in sex. How did they become so chaste, and can the Church help other countries achieve such a blissful state of boogielessness?

Bwahahaha, about 2 years ago - that realization 180-degree turned me from snarky about Japan sexism to - Quick! Import more of your stuff over here!

The same goes for sexist video games, Twilight, harems, etc.

I still (of course) snark about the sexism, but those have become more and more rare. Unless we count wanting more sexist media to reduce population as snark.

Seriously, imho, the RCC making sex forbidden fruit is just making it worse. And I just no longer have the luxury to be patient with their celibacy-short-sightedness.

Not forbidden fruit. Disgusting fruit no one wants to touch. Though it's fun to watch other people eat it.

I think that's a response to the lack of sex, not a cause of it, but perhaps better in the Japanese Culture thread?

Looks like that side of the Church has misunderstood the point about sex. It's not sex in and of itself that constitutes sin. It's pre-marital sex and/or adulterous sex (and, yes, masturbation, for those want to go it alone). A married couple having sex and not having babies by using natural birth control methods? It's allright.

Besides, the priests cannot force or constantly persuade people into being celibate. It's like they keep missing the point of Pope Francis (which is "stop focusing so much on sex and abortion").

A Primer on Where Pope Stands on Gays, Divorce, Climate

Some of his statements on Abortion, Capitalism, Celibacy, Contraception, The Death Penalty, Divorce, Drugs, Benedict XVI, The Environment, Gays, Gay Marriage, Immigration, Indigenous People, Nuns, Papal Resignation (his own), Sexual Abuse, Vatican Reform, and Women.

Whew.

edited 1st Sep '15 5:57:47 AM by DeMarquis

What exactly is the Church's stance on basically the stuff pertaining to Lot and his family before and after Sodom and Gomorrah? Do they agree with the fact it was the daughters who made Lot impregnate them post-Sodom and Gomorrah, or do they agree with the fact Lot separated himself from Abraham due to the he had incestuous tendencies towards his daughters and that he impregnated them post-Sodom and Gomorrah? Oh, if anyone's asking where I read the differing interpretations of Lot and his family, it was here.

I don't think there's a defined stance. The Catholic Church is silent on the proper interpretation of many biblical passages, and, basically, readers are allowed to accept one of several understandings, as long as it doesn't contradict the divine revelation in the Gospels and the Sacred Tradition (iirc).

Also, keep this in mind when dealing with interpretations (exegesis) of the Bible:

In most cases, the obvious conclusion is: the Pope is just being Catholic. The major difference is in tone, which, for the most part, tends to be far more reconciliatory than that of his predecessor.

edited 1st Sep '15 7:21:10 AM by Quag15

I was trying to ignore it, but this headline - Pope Francis: Priests Can Forgive Abortion If Women Are 'Contrite'.

How about we try to help women more in having to (not) need abortions in the first place? Just approve birth control already, goddamit.

Sometimes, I feel as though this pope is trying to toe the moderate or middle line, too much.

edited 1st Sep '15 7:19:30 PM by probablyinsane

He's not gonna approve birth control. The teachings on that have been present for a long time, and challenging them would be too much for him:

He has to toe the moderate line to make sure it doesn't cause splits and schisms left and right.

edited 2nd Sep '15 7:28:24 AM by Quag15

I'm pretty sure that abortion and anything else the RCC considers a sin was already forgivable if the person is contrite, he was just clarifying the church's position.

Scuse me, popping in. Yeah, it's just that priests can now absolve confessions of abortion without needing permission from a bishop.

I think in America many bishops already gave them that power, so at least as far as the US is concerned, it's not really a big change.

That was a thing, needing a bishop's permission to absolve sins for certain confessions? Don't priests already act in persona Christi in the sacrament of Reconciliation?

Yes, but abortion was one of the sins that, in the past, would've led to excommunication latae sententiae (i.e. automatic). In these special cases, they (would) have to consult the bishop for permission.

This document helps to provide a bit of context.

edited 2nd Sep '15 9:41:32 PM by Quag15

And there is lies the problem. What might be considered moderate with in the Church hierarchy (as opposed to the greater members of the church) isn't a moderate line when measured against the the greater population. It's very much a conservative/neo-reactionary position.

Blergh. I'm just going apply my "in order to not splutter in rage" mental tactic.

In their next lives, the anti-birth control clergy are going to be female and be one of the millions of women every damn year who have to resort to unsafe abortions.

It's worth noting that Francis really is genuinely pretty conservative, and we shouldn't be trying to attach him to positions he hasn't taken.

Pope Cleans Up Dead Angel Who Flew Into Sistine Chapel Window. Brought to you by America's Finest News Source.

Here's something related:

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/lawmakers-buck-proposals-legalize-abortion-000000737.html

Pope Francis urges for Europe to shelter syrian war refugees.

To quote the article itself, "once more into the fray" goes Pope Francis.

I dunno if I'm allowed to say that, but bless his soul.

Do you think he'll get canonized after death?

On another topic, this is what runs through my head when I read old stories where people feared to die without confession...

Servant of God -> Venerable -> Blessed (which is what beatification is about - it requires a miracle, unlike the first two categories) -> Saint (which is what one gets declared throough canonization)

edited 7th Sep '15 1:31:31 PM by Quag15