Since we've gotten told to stop talking generally about religion twice in the Homosexuality and Religion thread and were told that, if we want to talk generally about religion, we need to make a new thread, I have made a new thread.
Full disclosure: I am an agnostic atheist and anti-theist, but I'm very interested in theology and religion.
Mod Edit: All right, there are a couple of ground rules here:
- This is not a thread for mindless bashing of religion or of atheism/agnosticism etc. All view points are welcome here. Let's have a civil debate.
- Religion is a volatile subject. Please don't post here if you can't manage a civil discussion with viewpoints you disagree with. There will be no tolerance for people who can't keep the tone light hearted.
- There is no one true answer for this thread. Don't try to force out opposing voices.
edited 9th Feb '14 1:01:31 PM by Madrugada
The law in the night
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Luthor is a bad buy anyway, being The Hipocrite is not a problem for someone who doesn't give a fuck about principles.
United Earth
I mean that there's nothing wrong with bottling the world, and anyone telling you otherwise is trying to manipulate you, using your suffering for their own ends.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Lost in Space
If you study the evolution of Christian doctrine, Hell as a specific metaphysical location where one is punished in the afterlife for one's sins was not codified until recently, relatively speaking. As a rhetorical tool, its role is obvious: the stick to the carrot of Heaven, motivating moral behavior in different ways for different people.
Do I, personally, believe in Hell as a metaphysical place of punishment? No, but neither do I believe in Heaven, so it's a wash. I feel that human beings are more than capable of creating their own hells right here on Earth.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Can you really believe in one without the other? Whether all people go to Heaven, or some people go to Heaven and some people go to their own idea of the afterlife, or some people go to Heaven and other people's souls just float around after they die...what's most likely.
I don't think everyone goes to Heaven, or at least not the same one.
United Earth
I believe that All Dogs Go To Heaven and are greeted by big-lipped alligators.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
People in the afterlife probably don't call it the afterlife, because after a few hundred millennia it will comprise of such a vast percentage of your existence that the "life" you led before will be more like an extended gestation period. We don't call this existence the "afterwomb" do we?
It's a bird.
Hm, only "no" and "not really" so far, perhaps a "maybe" or "sort of" as well, based on my interpretation of your answers at least. I was kind of expecting that, but it would have been interesting to hear the reasoning behind a "yes", in a morbid curiosity sort of way.
Yes, the whole "eternal" part of "eternal afterlife" seems to get overlooked a lot. Your physical existence becoming a distant memory, and then such a tiny part of your total existence that "memory" stops sounding like a good term, and then even less than that, and so on... and that's assuming that you actually get to remember it... just another layer of the Nightmare Fuel I guess.
edited 30th Aug '15 1:57:46 PM by Corvidae
Still a great "screw depression" song even after seven years.
I'm not overly fond of the "oblivion" thing I think is coming for everyone.
It's a bird.
That's understandable. I would still argue that it beats the alternative though.
I think that the afterlife ultimately dwarfs physical life is kind of the point: Our physical life is just a short gestation period to something infinitely longer.
"Any campaign world where an orc samurai can leap off a landcruiser to fight a herd of Bulbasaurs will always have my vote of confidence"
It's a bird.
And that is supposed to be a good thing?
Edit: I should probably clarify. If that's actually the case, and involves an afterlife that's better than the horrible ones I've had described to me thus far, then yeah, I might be okay with that. But believing that your life (which as far as we currently know is all you'll get) is just a short and ultimately sort of pointless introduction to something else... It doesn't sound very healthy to me.
edited 30th Aug '15 2:16:44 PM by Corvidae
Still a great "screw depression" song even after seven years.
United Earth
Especially given what pains await you if you fail the test. There you are, burning in Hell for the tenth millennium in a row, for a brutal act of unrepentant butchery that you committed when in the thirty-seventh year of your existence, that no-one, not the victims, not your torturers, not yourself, even remembers.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
That depends on if you believe we remember things in the Afterlife (I think we do) or what you think Hell is like.
Personally, I fall into the view that Hell is Cessation of Existence or something similar. Heaven is, in my view a lot like Earth, but with certain Scrappy Mechanics patched out. Oh, and God's there.
edited 30th Aug '15 2:34:29 PM by Protagonist506
"Any campaign world where an orc samurai can leap off a landcruiser to fight a herd of Bulbasaurs will always have my vote of confidence"
It's a bird.
And that's assuming a best case scenario of hell as a place for "bad" people. (Though how anyone could possibly deserve such a ridiculously over-the-top punishment is beyond me.)
I think that the word "hell" sort of implies some kind of suffering, at least to me. Cessation of existence would just be "regular old death", which I would also be totally fine with. Regardless of semantics, who do you think receives either fate, and why? And more importantly, do you think that this is a fair system, or would you change it if you could?
edited 30th Aug '15 2:44:28 PM by Corvidae
Still a great "screw depression" song even after seven years.
United Earth
Isn't God everywhere?
In Heaven he's extra-concentrated.
Visiting from the Hoag Galaxy
One thing I've heard about, increasingly so, in recent years are relatives of mine who convinced themselves that they were horrible sinners, when they were anything but. (Including my grandfather who had, for some reason, attempted to make a deal with God where he would never go to a doctor. No I don't know why either. He ended up going to the doctor when he had a stroke and he just sort of...gave up a year later.)
It's honestly kind of horrifying that these devout Christians think they deserve to burn forever...because of really minor things that no one cares about.
Not Three Laws compliant.
Who Am I?
I suspect they are actually using a religion to work out some emotional issues of their own.
"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
Well, if you want to sell the idea of a saviour you need to convince people they need saving first. Some people are bound to take it a bit too far.
If the point of your life is just to conduct yourself in a way that determines how you'll spend eternity after life...
It seems too death-focused.
I don't think "non-existent" is the base level for a soul. You're born, you live, and then you die.
More instead I believe in an evolutionarily purpose. You live to better your species, whether by making more of yourself, improving the lives of those around you, or educating those who come after you so THEY can help improve other's lives.
People get jobs so they can provide both for themselves AND so that somebody else can benefit from their work. That's one of the better aspects of capitalism.
edited 30th Aug '15 5:57:42 PM by Keybreak
As for the desirability of seeking immortality: by the Bible's own internal logic, it's a good thing. God (and other immortal beings) seem to enjoy their immortality. In addition, God (an all-loving being with excellent foresight) wouldn't have gone to exceptional lengths to grant humanity immortality if it wasn't a good thing.
While I admit this is slightly circular reasoning (I'm using the Bible to prove the Bible), if one supposes the Bible is correct, then it logically follows as well that one would assume that immortality is good as well.
"Any campaign world where an orc samurai can leap off a landcruiser to fight a herd of Bulbasaurs will always have my vote of confidence"
As for "getting to Heaven" being the purpose of life...I would say not quite. A person has a role to fulfill on Earth, but they also have a role to fulfill in Heaven, so a person would want to go there in order to do it.
For example, a musician might have been created specifically to create music. They would therefore seek out Heaven so that they could write more music, something they won't be able to do in Hell.
"Any campaign world where an orc samurai can leap off a landcruiser to fight a herd of Bulbasaurs will always have my vote of confidence"
United Earth
Heaven, please sing with me a song of life...
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
I dunno, You could probably make a decent drum kit out of the burning coals or something.
Luthor went on to do exactly what he accused Superman of doing.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.