Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft

Two of which BGH would also have helped for. It's just a nice swing tool to shift momentum. Having anything on the board when the opponent summons Alexstrazsa also helps a lot, for obvious reasons. As a shaman, it's not too hard to trade up. Rag being guaranteed win means you literally had 0 board presence on a turn when he's spending 8 mana. No offense, but that kind of failure has nothing to do with how many legendaries are in a deck. Rag is traditionally a coin-flip, even in pro level games.

edited 27th Dec '14 11:28:03 PM by Clarste

in other words. I should burn all my cards and quit the game completely while I'm ahead instead of pretending I ever have a shot of winning. :P

Nah, just put in some Sludge Belchers and you should be gold.

Edit: For reference, I also own zero non-Naxx legendaries.

edited 27th Dec '14 11:34:10 PM by Clarste

Hey, I already play Priest as one of my decks! Uh... I also have a single copy of Thoughtsteal and BGH. I just swapped out a random Burly Rockjaw Trogg for BGH, but I'm not sure about the rest of these (already run two Shadow Word: Death). I don't have Faceless or Mind Control Tech.

My current decklist:

• 2 Holy Smite
• 2 Power Word: Shield
• 1 Lightwarden
• 2 Northshire Cleric
• 2 Shadow Word: Pain
• 2 Acidic Swamp Ooza
• 1 Shadowboxer
• 1 Shrinkmeister
• 2 Shadow Word: Death
• 1 Velen's Chosen (I have a second copy spare)
• 1 Big Game Hunter
• 2 Dark Cultist
• 2 Injured Blademaster
• 1 Defender of Argus (I have a second copy spare)
• 2 Sen'jin Shieldmasta
• 2 Holy Nova
• 1 Loatheb
• 1 Sludge Belcher
• 1 Holy Fire
• 1 Argent Commander

This is without doing any crafting yet. I don't have much dust, and I'd like to refrain for now.

I'm pretty happy with it, seeing as it's purely boosters. But I'm not sure what I'd take out for those suggestions.

EDIT: I finally got to play Kel'Thuzad! He revived my Water Elemental, who I swung into a 12/12 Northshire Cleric to freeze it without losing anything.

The opponent then Mind Controlled Kel'Thuzad on his turn and I got my teeth kicked in. Great.

edited 28th Dec '14 3:25:43 AM by Saiga

Don't look at me, I'm still getting my ass kicked in both Arena and Constructed. Still trying to get my brain around this new meta and figuring out what to craft. (I do note, though, that I don't see SW:D on that list anywhere.)

...that would be because when looking at the screenshot I took of my decklist to write that, I confused my Shadowboxer for my 2 Shadow Word: Deaths. So I put down 2 Shadowboxers and missed the Shrinkmeister between them xD

Definitely didn't miss or over count anything this time.

Also, I just came away from an incredibly pro-longed losing streak. Finally managed to win something against a Paladin and decided to stop for the night. There are two many damn Legendaries around rank 13-15.

The thing about card games is that it is easier to blame a loss on the cards your opponent played (especially if they are rare cards you do not own yourself) than genuinely accept that you misplayed and trying to get better.

For example: you're up against a Warlock who taps on turn 2 and 3. You use these turns to attack his face, quickly reducing his health below 10. You've nearly won, as your opponent has almost no health left, you've got a board full of minions and your opponent has none. Your opponent plays 2 Molten Giants, which now costs 0 mana, gives them Taunt and/or clears the board with Shadowflame.

It's easy to blame your loss on the fact that your opponent had 2 Molten Giants in his deck, which are epic cards. Instead, you should ask yourself if you properly assumed you were up against a Handlock and played accordingly (e.g. by keeping an eye on how many Molten Giants he can play at any given point, to determine whether or not you should attack with your minions).

Most players see their opponent play multiple late game legendaries and blame their loss on that. Late game legendaries suck when you have no way to play them, because they sit dead in your hand. Deck with multiple late game legendaries are control decks, and you can often tell from the early turns what kind of deck you're up against. If you determine you're up against a control deck, play accordingly. This may mean you'll have to play really aggressively, ending the game before the opponent can play their big threats, or saving up all your removal and then dropping your own big threats, depending on your deck. However, keep in mind that the last option requires you to also play a control deck.

A large part of the skill in Hearthstone comes from determining what deck your opponent is playing and knowing what cards are popular in that deck. Everyone likes to complain about netdecking, but use it in your favor, regularly look at deck lists even for classes and deck types you don't play and try to memorize them. This is more useful higher on the ladder, when more people play meta decks, but it's still an important skill to have. This also makes it easier to swap tech cards in and out from your deck, e.g. Harrison Jones or Acidic Swamp Ooze when you're facing a lot of Hunter/Paladin/Warrior (and to a lesser extent Shaman and to an even lesser extent Handlock).

It's good to point out that as in any other card game, match ups also decide the winner. Take Freeze Mage against Control Warrior, for example, which was the most one sided match up ever, iirc Control Warrior had a 90% win rate against Freeze Mage. If you play Freeze Mage and lose from a Control Warrior, you'll just have to accept you were doomed to lose from the moment you queued into your next game. (Control Warrior was likely to win just because of the Warrior Hero Power, all the Warrior had to do was using his Hero Power every turn, gaining more armor than the Mage can deal damage.)

One last thing I should point out is that besides actively looking for misplays, is to play the right deck. The reason why Zoolock and Deathrattle Hunter can be dirt cheap and still be the top decks of the meta is because they work. They have a win condition, and they focus only on what they're trying to do. The same is true for any of the more popular decks, and it should also be true for the decks you're playing, even if you do not have the cards to play a meta deck. I often see, and in the past played, budget control decks that just feature a lot of removal, but that do not have any of the late game threats a control deck needs. These decks tend to focus on what they're trying to do (get to the late game), but lack a win condition (big threats). Sure, a badly constructed control deck may win from a midrange deck, but you'll always lose against a control deck that does have those big threats. In other words, you shouldn't stall and get to the late game if your opponent has the advantage in the late game.

Also, the reason because you're facing strong decks at low ranks (this late in the season) is either because those players genuinely suck at playing that deck or they're winfarming by conceding every two games. You shouldn't have to worry about that first category, because if you're good enough you can and should still win. The second category are just assholes that are taking advantage of the badly designed ladder system and the golden hero reward. Earlier in the season, good players are still trying to climb the ladder after the reset, so you'll run into them on the lower ranks.

I still haven't had my question of "what new legendary should I get" answered. Still leaning towards Sneed's Old Shredder for my Haphazard Ramp Druid.

Have you thought about Sylvanas? From what I understand she seems to be this universal "101 uses" card that you can fit in almost any deck.

I've considered Sylvanas, as well as Cairne, Dr. Boom, Ragnaros, Malorne, and Gazlowe due to him slotting in nicely to my Spare Parts Mech Shaman deck.

I've also considered not going with the legendary and using this dust to craft two Cabal Shadow Priests and whatever else I need to make a proper Priest deck.

However, I feel like having Sneed's will be the most fun option if perhaps not necessarily the most effective.

edited 28th Dec '14 7:25:09 AM by Thnikkafan

I'm thinking I should make a proper Priest deck (meaning one not necessarily based on the Trump basic decks). I'm just not sure what style I want to play or what my options are. It does still need to be cheap but I'm starting to get a good collection of commons and rares and I bought and beat the first wing of Nax today.

How to make Annoy-O-Tron more annoying:

I don't get it...

Sylvannis' Death Rattle is really good. Last night an opponent dropped one on the board while I had a Loatheb and Shade of Naxxramas on board. My only option was to ram the Shade into Sylvannas, completely wasting it, then attack with Loatheb, to make sure they didn't steal the Shade. Without silence or polymorph her Death Rattle can be extremely hard to play around.

The joke (courtesy of the video editing) is that Annoy-O-Tron causes an Interface Screw, making it so you can never select the card you want to play from your hand. To be fair, I had to watch it twice to get the joke.

For those of you who don't have a lot of dust to make a deck, I suggest playing some form of aggro. This is the list I'm currently running, which is a mage deck. It's made up almost entirely of basic cards and commons. The only rares are Jeeves and Goblin Blastmage (which is an absolute house), and it plays no epics or legendaries.

Note that the decklist is still a bit in flux. I really like Jeeves when he works, and am extremely disappointed when he doesn't. I'm also tempted to fit a Flamecannon in there somewhere, as it's just so damn efficient.

Paladin aggro is also really powerful, but you'll need Muster for Battle, Quartermasters and Bolvar/Tirion for it to be really good.

Thanks for the advice, but I think that if I was going to spend that much dust on an aggro deck, it'd just be better to go for the Hunter variant since it's apparently Legend-eligible.

Also, milestone reached: I won a game with Kel'thuzad! And all I needed for value was a silenced Sludge Belcher on board. Drop Kelly, finish off Shieldmaiden with Sludge Belcher, then watch it come back unsilenced. He killed it and the sludge next turn, taking out two of his minions... and both came back because Kelly. Woops.

To be fair passing the turn wouldn't have done shit for him anyway, but that was still a huge misplay. Actually made the board state way worse for him, on both sides.

I'm afraid I'd never be able to speak to you again if you went with that abomination of a deck.

At this point, it's only fair.

okay no but seriously screw legendaries. It's easy to say I must be misplaying when ignoring the massive power difference.

edited 29th Dec '14 2:55:58 AM by Saiga

The thing is, players that complain about legendary minions being OP do so after losing to a control deck. The general rock-paper-scissors of Hearthstone is that aggro beats control, control beats midrange and midrange beats aggro. This isn't true for all match ups, but it's close enough. The great thing about aggro decks is that they're very budget friendly, with decks like Mech Mage often consisting of mostly common cards. Zoo is as strong as ever. Everyone loves to hate Deathrattle Hunter, but the truth is that it's a very strong budget deck. Some of these decks require you to own Naxxramas, but most players do.

The trick is to play the right deck for the cards you own. Start with aggro or Zoo, and as you accumulate cards move onto strong midrange decks, and eventually control decks. While you're playing, actively try to get better and master the decks you're playing, and keep an eye on the meta.

Just keep in mind that while legendaries like Ragnaros, Dr. Boom and Sylvanas are strong in the late game, they're weak against aggro, because you don't get to play Ragnaros as the control player when you're dead on turn 5. They're good in the late game against decks that can't keep up in the lategame, like a midrange deck or a control deck that lacks late game threats (these decks are often just midrange decks with more removal, played as if they were control decks).

So yeah, I do think you're misplaying (let's be honest, we all do), or that you're playing the wrong deck. Based on the fact that you play Kel'thuzad, I assume you're playing some kind of control deck that lacks late game threats (the other option would be that you're using a really greedy control/Ramp Druid deck, but why would you complain about legendaries in that case?). Those decks just do not work, as they're punished by aggro, and they're punished by control decks that do have those threats.

You can totally ignore my advice if you want to, just keep in mind I'm trying to help you improve.

edited 29th Dec '14 4:17:53 AM by iTeruri

Yeah I don't see choosing a deck archetype as being a misplay at all. I'm playing a Mage control deck, and that really just shows how overpowered Legendaries are that it's the same type of deck and it absolutely steam rolls me.

I don't like it at all that I'd have to play a specific deck type just to deal with the Legendaries. That is over-centralizing.

I'm not ignoring your advice, but I really think you're brushing off how much of this just boils down to Legendary creatures being overpowered. Which is all of it. Everything else is trying to work around how overpowered they are, like trying to win before they're even played.

edited 29th Dec '14 4:36:56 AM by Saiga

Citation needed.

I don't fully disagree with your overall point, but I think you are severely overestimating how easy it is for your average player to get Naxxramas. Paying 700 gold per wing is not cheap, specially when you are still buying regular packs for your deck. In fact, none of the played I actually know personally have bought it, preferring spending their gold on packs or arena.

I did not meant to imply using the wrong deck was a misplay, but that misplaying and using the wrong deck are the two most common mistakes I see.

You do have to play specific decks to be able to deal with control decks effectively, yes. But you also have to play specific decks to be able to deal with aggro effectively. Most decks include AOE and Silence effects specifically to counter aggro decks, which also makes them centralizing. In fact, there's an entire type of deck designed to slow aggro decks down to the point they've run out of steam and then overtake them; midrange decks. The point is that aggro, midrange and control decks exist because the others exist, and not just because control (= late game threats, = legendaries) exists.

I've said before that I would like more budget options for control decks, and I truly believe that having a few common/rare late game threats that are actually viable for constructed would help the game. But let's not ignore the fact that aggro is very viable, very budget friendly and that you're rewarded for playing aggro on the ladder (= shorter games = more wins in a shorter time = faster ranking up). Probably the only reason to not play aggro is because you pride yourself in not playing a "mindless" aggro deck. Heck, there's a reason aggro decks get called cancer all the time.

I also should make it clear that I agree certain legendaries are more powerful than they should be (*cough* Dr. Boom *cough*), but I feel that's an entirely different discussion.

(Incidentally, I just realized most, but not all, of the recent nerfs where specifically to target aggro decks. Soulfire because of Zoo. Flare, Starving Buzzard and Eaglehorn Bow for Hunter. Leeroy Jenkins for aggro in general.)

I should rephrase that as 'Most players that are serious about constructed should own Naxxramas', making it a bit of paywall (as it's not really worth it to spend months grinding for the gold imo). I do not necessarily agree with that decision, as I think having just Naxxramas is fine, but in the future when there's more adventures, it'll probably be a serious problem. I get that Blizzard wants to make the grind tedious to make spending money more alluring, but I feel like they set the gold price too high.

edited 29th Dec '14 5:20:55 AM by iTeruri

The different deck styles isn't what I mean by it being over-centralizing. The fact that for budget players, it's only viable to go aggro is what I meant. Even if the match ups generally follow rock paper scissors, it'd be possible for control to beat control if they were at the same power level.

edit: Bought a booster, got a Leper Gnome, Golden Highmane, Lightwell, Ironbeak Owl and Snipe. I think I'm making that hunter deck.

Got a Golden Siltfin Spiritwalker, as well. Hey, Eaglehorn Bow!

edited 29th Dec '14 5:23:30 AM by Saiga

I feel like I should mention for context's sake that Terui has every single card in the game or something close to it, they being perfectly willing to shell out as much money as they need to get them all. From the sounds of it, the rest of you aren't doing that, which makes for an inherent dissonance between them and the rest of us.