Male Roles Vs. Female Roles in Fiction: Discussion/Analysis/Troperwank

It's so absurd, the manga easily disproves the notion put forth in the article.

Oh my issue is not about the sugestion Samus us transgender, but the thing that is just that: a Suggestion but beacause is wrap in a problematic context(trans people as many other minority lacking representation) making dificult to discuss at all.

This is nothing new, it happen more in shipping scene, more likey Yaoi fangirl who want their favorite chararter to be couple(Siruis and Lupin or Dean and Castiel to said some example) and push some...questionable headcanons, its getting annoying after a while.

edited 2nd Sep '15 8:29:05 PM by unknowing

Eh… it seems a lot more likely to me that the dev was just throwing out a shitty joke. But people can do the headcanon thing or whatever.

This is starting to remind me of the problem with comic books and their movie adaptations. Or the difference between Game of Thrones and A Song of Ice and Fire.

Maybe it's the grad school lit snob in me getting flashbacks from adaptation analysis, but there's a certain point where this really shouldn't matter. Keep in mind that I'm saying this as someone who loves inter-universe analyses, so don't read me as rejecting the theory off hand. DC comics adaptations are a really good example of why it's best not to get too caught up in these issues. If some transphobic person wants to close his eyes, cover his ears and insist that Samus was born with the physical anatomy of a female, he can do that, but if it's established elsewhere that she's transgender then < gasp! > the entire mythology of Metroid doesn't burst into flames.

edited 2nd Sep '15 8:43:29 PM by Aprilla

I don't really know how serious claiming that Samus as a transgender woman is.

It would be like claiming x characters are gay because they have close partners or friends of same sex, but using that circumstantial and unfounded theory to highlight the lack of an under represented group, that is OK as it usually starts the discussion over representation, but if the intent is to affirm that a strict alternate character interpretation is the only right one all I have to say is WTF.

For something semi related but if I recall correctly, in Metroid Fusion, there was some subtle drama over Samus being infertile due to the Chozo genetic treatment they gave her and unable to have an offspring of her own and essentially left her like Ripley and Newt from Aliens but with Samus being attached to the Baby Metroid instead. Its been years since I played Metroid and I guess the only one I didn't play was The Other M.

edited 2nd Sep '15 8:57:02 PM by AngelusNox

Not as surprising, Tubmlr fandoms gain part of their reputation because of that tendency of pushing Alternate chararterization and headcannons as true,specially the ones involving gay shipping.

But I dont see anything in the article that threat it as a joke so I don count on it.

Personally my problem with those theories lies in how many arise from a female character having what is traditionally more masculine prusites and mannerisms, and saying that they are trans because of that kinda feels off because it feels like they are saying a cis woman cant be....

Gah, I am having a bit of trouble with the english on this one.

Personally my problem with those theories lies in how many of them arise from taking a female character having what is traditionally masculine pursuits and mannerisms, and saying that they are trans because of that feels kinda off because it feels like they are saying a cis woman can't be...tough and masculine?

You mean something like this? Sorry if I over step my bounds here.

The bolded is my conjecture, obviously

Yes, that pretty much.

I just mean the whole thing I feel was worded poorly, but I cant seem to word it better. >.<

Yeah the fact that Samus was one of the first women in gaming PERIOD complicates this issue a lot.

Transgender woman <<——>> woman

Not complicated.

Conflating a female character having traditionally masculine mannerisms with that character being transgender does feel like inadvertly throwing masculine ciswomen under the bus.

You know that is not the point dosent it? while a transwoman is a women, is quite diferent in matter of represetation and other issue, also like I said there is the matter in this is even a pausable theory and how to dicuss it without making like a flame bait as the article made to be.

Samus is a malleable being by virtue of the fact that she is a fictitious entity. That's one of the major problems I'm having with all of this. It's not something I'm interested in duking out.

I'm out.

Indeed.

edited 2nd Sep '15 9:42:58 PM by Aprilla

I let people hold their headcanons even if I personally don't buy trans Samus.

Them...sorry for asking this...why posting them? it feel you are repeting yourself how is not work it even when other are taking about it.

It dosent bother me the theory per se, just the somewhat dishonest way to frame the whole issue, is not the first website to do that(yesh craked, im looking to you)

I've had people ask this question before. When a conversation becomes difficult for whatever reason, everything you've said up to that point doesn't suddenly become null and void, like you've somehow capitulated or lost all conviction in what you're saying.

Failure to convey a message and a desire to discontinue a debate do not confer wasted effort. I'm pointing this out so it's made clear for future reference.

First I wouldn't trust the Mary Sue on gender issues any more than I would trust Fox on race issues - and secondly, I've had a question in the back of my head since the "Female Thor" debacle:

Why do people try to change existing characters (ethnicity, sex, gender, etc.) instead of creating and promoting new characters that might represent what people feel is underrepresented at the moment?

I've also found the emphasis also somewhat strange. Instead of, for example, a "transgender character", why not have a character who also happens to be transgender? Maybe it's only my impression, but the former formula always sounds like the character's only defining attribute is his/her gender - which I personally find somewhat concerting.

edited 3rd Sep '15 6:33:47 AM by DrunkenNordmann

You guys know that trans women having their womanhood discounted because of them having masculine interests is a big problem, right? We don't tolerate traditionally masculine traits on trans women significantly more than we do on cis women.

I don't really care about the theory (it's like a month old, anyway) but the idea that interpreting female action heroes as trans takes anything away from cis women really rubs me the wrong way.

Well said.

Frederic Jameson reviews David Wittenberg's Time Travel: The Popular Philosophy of Narrative

edited 3rd Sep '15 7:08:57 AM by Aprilla

"Why do people try to change existing characters (ethnicity, sex, gender, etc.) instead of creating and promoting new characters that might represent what people feel is underrepresented at the moment?"

Because of this: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MinorityShowGhetto

and this

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GirlShowGhetto

To put it lighly, a mainstrain show can be about anything, with diferent tone and chararter but the moment it have black or women chararters(oh gods forbidden,a black women) it become a "niche" story that can be only be enojy if you are part of that minority or have some sort of interest on it.

Actually with shows like MLP and Steven Universe I'd say at least Girl-Show Ghetto is on its way to discreditdom.

Why the hell would Samus being transgender or not matter she shoots aliens one way or another

While Steven Universe is doing a great job with diversity, it still has a male protagonist. Actually, I think they had to give the show a male protagonist for it to be greenlit.

Yeah but he's been subverting most of the nastier tropes that come with a male protagonist.

Steven Universe is an amazing show.