Tipping in restaurants

Another benefit of tipping I just realized: you don't have to pay sales tax on a tip.

They're only making minimum wage if the people who attended that table feel like complying with social convention. And even if the gratuity is added to the bill I don't think the restaurant can legally make them pay that gratuity. So yes, the servers are nearly entirely dependent on the kindness of strangers. That's the problem with tipping. It still feels like you're dismissing the struggle of waiters, particularly since an actual waiter was commenting in the thread earlier and said he has to work absolutely crazy hours. And waiters quite often do work more than one job because tips just aren't cutting it.

And Raven, that's an advantage for the consumer only. I'm pretty sure a lot of people would be okay paying a higher price anyway if it meant the servers were being paid fairly.

@Swish: If you want a really convincing argument for why what servers make just doesn't cut it, give "Serving in Florida" by Barbara Ehrenreich a read (second link listed in the results—the second link has the full article while the first is only an excerpt, but the one I want to link is a Word document so linking it directly may not work). It's probably the definitive study of this (as well as other problems of the working poor).

And to answer Quiese's question about why cooks don't get tipped...I work as a cook myself (at a Pizza Hut, sure, but a job title is a job title), so I can tell you bluntly that the waitstaff needs the tips more than the cooks do. They're still the ones who get the brunt of the heat from the customers if we screw up. If their food is late or cold or wrong, still the server's fault, despite all logic pointing elsewhere. Top it off, I work for minimum wage and have only been there for half a year, but I guarantee you that I still make more than the single mother of 5 waitress who's been there for years earns on most days (especially since very little of our business is dine-in), despite her needing it far more than I do.

edited 5th Feb '13 11:22:26 PM by 0dd1

And also to answer Quiese's question, most dine-in restaurants (eg, not fast food) have tip-share programs, where the wait staff doesn't keep all the tips, but is expected to split them with the cooks, busboys, and sometimes management.

Bullshit. I've already proven otherwise. Everyone makes the minimum wage.

If you make minimum wage, I can guarantee you that the two of you make the same amount per hour(or she makes more)... If she truly doesn't, have her call your local WHD office(WHD - Wage and Hour Division of the Department of Labor). It will be corrected.

But regarding the reading material, it's interesting. But it tells me nothing I don't already know about the situation: Minimum wage sucks. Working long hours on minimum wage sucks. But I have no interest in discussion how one segment of minimum wage workers can improve their lot(at the expense of others), while ignoring the rest...

And in those situations, they should call their WHD office as well. Waitstaff being forced to share tips with non-tip earners is illegal(though, for some reason, bussers are considered tip-earners by the DOL, and as such could be paid the same $2.15+tips the waitstaff are being paid)...

edited 6th Feb '13 12:16:23 AM by Swish

@Swish: your belief in labor law is admirable, but misplaced. Methinks you are perhaps a law student rather than an actual employee in the industry.

Seriously dude...you think it is that easy? I've worked in these industries (and my home state is liberal by comparison to some) and I've seen what happens to people who do what you suggest. Snitches get fired. That's how it fucking is. Simply having a law about something doesn't make the problems go away, and no waiter or busboy is going to risk his job to complain about inequity when he or she depends on that job to pay bills and keep a place to live.

The bare reality is thus...you only have rights as a laborer (realistically speaking) if you have skills that cannot be easily replaced. The fact is that any monkey can run a register or serve food. Sure, anyone who's actually done that job knows different...but the other fact is that the people who make laws don't really know that, thus why register operators and food servers continue to get screwed despite laws on the books designed to protect them.

It's easy to fire people as long as you can replace them.

edited 6th Feb '13 12:29:13 AM by drunkscriblerian

Depends on the state. Quite a few states have laws on the books saying that tip-share is legal as long as the people getting the tip money have helped the customer in some way.

@Drunk: I know exactly how it is. As I said before, whistle-blower laws protect people less than labor laws do. And whistle-blower laws have no teeth primarily because of at-will employment("S/he was fired due to budget cuts, not because s/he called the feds")...

That said, the laws still exist. And I have no reason to believe someone claiming they don't get the minimum wage unless they can prove it. And if they can prove it, then they can easily have that problem fixed.

And yes, fixing the problem may cost them their job. But if getting the money isn't that important, then there's really no reason for the complaint.

Actually, no. I posted it earlier, but here it is again: Tipped Employees Under the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA)

In it, specifically:

Individual states may have additional restrictions.

As I have said multiple times. I feel for minimum wage employees. The jobs pay low, and they are difficult. But I've seen nothing in this thread explaining why one segment of minimum wage jobs(waitstaff) should get extra tips to "increase their wages", rather than a bump in the minimum wage...

edited 6th Feb '13 12:39:27 AM by Swish

@Swish: Sorry. A lot of people seem to feel that "well, we've got laws, why don't these people take advantage of them?" as if that's enough. It rubs me the wrong way when I hear people talk about blowing the whistle...I've been in those trades and I know exactly what happens to people who do that.

Again, that only works if one is lucky enough to have rare/advanced skills. If you are easily replaced, the laws don't protect you. That's the reality every low-wage American worker faces. Pretty sure its the same in other countries, only more so.

When it comes to tipping, I do it because those people work a hard trade and make shit for money doing it. I understand that and want to help them out. I'd tip my burger-flipper if I could, but I've since found out that those people actually cannot take tips. (I've tried to give them one, and they refuse.) I'm not sure why this is so, but it is. Probably company policy.

Anyhow...yeah, tipping culture in America is fucked up, arbitrary and basically unfair. Its taken an option and made it a necessity...through which it screws both the worker and the customer. The only one benefiting from the system as it stands is the employer. That's bullshit, and we ought to fix it.

But in the meantime, waiters and bartenders still ought to get paid what they're worth. So I'll keep tipping. At least I'm paying the person doing the work which benefits me directly.

edited 6th Feb '13 12:46:59 AM by drunkscriblerian

See prisoner's dilemma.

Don't get me wrong. I've done the minimum wage schtick as well(I have been fired from one for calling WHD about not getting lunch-breaks during 8 hour shifts*

But I feel that if something is important enough for you to bitch about, it's important enough for you to try to fix if you have an avenue to take. And if having the job is more important than getting what you're due at the job, then stop bitching about not getting what you're due...

That said, I tip as well. But my standard has been 15%, and will continue to be 15%. And I see no reason to increase it to any amount, unless service is beyond excellent. Mostly because I don't believe, or accept, the claims that waitstaff are mistreated. Or at least, they are no more mistreated than every other minimum wage worker... And as such, the solution isn't "tip more" but "increase the minimum wage" or "abolish tipping"...

edited 6th Feb '13 12:59:46 AM by Swish

What.

... Is that about the meaning of the statement or the fact that the statement was made?

I can't really do anything about the latter... But if it's the former, which part don't you understand?

Let me repeat that.

What.

Gonna go with Cats on that one. What part of "necessity breeds tolerance of adversity" don't you get?

If someone needs a job, they'll put up with bullshit to keep it...even if said bullshit happens to be illegal. This is why people say words about immigrant workers getting screwed.

The problem here isn't that the laws aren't there. It's that said laws are not adequate to the situation because they require a person to risk their employment to take advantage of them.

I'm not sure why you can say you've worked these trades and still regard this as fair.

I never said I regarded it as "fair". Nothing in life is "fair". If you want fair, kill yourself and hope there is no afterlife.

What exists is recourse. It isn't good, but nothing better exists or has been suggested.

People complaining, just to complain is fine. And it's a perfectly normal stress reliever. But I assume if someone is complaining about how they aren't getting paid minimum wage, they'd want it fixed... And as such I've presented the only option available to get it fixed.

"Getting people to tip you more" is not more likely to result in success... Yes it's less likely to result in losing... But so is every other form of inaction.

Oh good, people already expressed outrage at that statement. I don't have to now.

Problem is, the people who need the help are usually so easily replaceable that any complaints expressing that need will inevitably lead to being fired.

edited 6th Feb '13 1:31:34 AM by 0dd1

I'm going to second that 'what'. If people need this job to eat, they're not going to do anything that would lose it for them.

Even if you're only getting half of what you should be getting, that's still better than being fired and getting nothing.

What are you saying? "Well if you're not ready to lose your job and starve for the sake of the principle, then you didn't deserve that extra money anyway"?

@Loni: Said what I wanted to say better than I could express it.

That's exactly it.

Maybe they should start eating the rich...

@Cats: Heh, a reverse "modest proposal," I love it.

Yes.

Also, 'If you're not ready to go to jail for the sake of principle, you don't deserve to complain about lacking equal rights.'

edited 6th Feb '13 1:37:51 AM by Swish

...-_-

MLK still got fed in prison.

And a lot of those arrested with him didn't...