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Plagiarism and references:

 26 Noaqiyeum, Thu, 24th Jan '13 3:35:54 PM from out of the night from pole to pole Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
the it-thingy
At that point you've passed into the realm of fanfiction.
We dance around in a ring and suppose,
But the Secret sits in the middle and knows.
- Robert Frost
 27 Morwen Edhelwen, Thu, 24th Jan '13 3:55:36 PM from Sydney, Australia
Tolkien freak
@Noaquiyeum: How? Can you please explain what the differences are between that and this? One of those books mentions Peter Pan. Does that make it fanfic of Peter Pan? I really want to know, seriously, because my original aim with this was to do the same thing with high fantasy that Jackie French did with children's stories about fairies.

"You mean Tinkerbelle, " I said.

"No, Pinkerbelle, " insisted Phredde, flapping her wings like a berserk bee. She always does that when she's upset. "Tinkerbelle's my second cousin on Dad's side of the family. She's a real pain.'' She's got a crush on this really dumb boy...

" Not Peter Pan? " I interrupted.

"Yeah. How did you know?" demanded Phredde, surprised

That's from ''Phredde And A Frog Named Bruce, " one of the books mentioned above. How does making a reference to Tinker Bell being a character's cousin (and having a crush on Peter Pan) any different to having a reference to Bilbo Baggins inside a comic novel, or saying "Oakenshield, like in The Hobbit"? How does it make it fanfiction? If what I'm doing is fanfic, does that make the quoted extract fanfic too, since it references Peter Pan? Is it because Peter Pan is older than The Hobbit? Or is it because I have characters named Thorin+name which could be translated as "With-An-Oak-Shield" (even though the name is lampshaded) and Frodo? I'm confused.

edited 24th Jan '13 4:08:34 PM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
 28 Noaqiyeum, Thu, 24th Jan '13 4:07:42 PM from out of the night from pole to pole Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
the it-thingy
[up] Yes, actually, it would; both are trying to establish that the reference is to the real Tinkerbelle/Middle-Earth, or the real inspiration, if I understand correctly? The difference is that Peter Pan is no longer fully protected by copyright, which is not true of The Lord of the Rings.

This is also why H.P. Lovecraft fanfiction is publishable (and probably a lot of his popularity, as a result) - a significant portion of his work is in the public domain, and the rest is contentious.

edited 24th Jan '13 4:10:42 PM by Noaqiyeum

We dance around in a ring and suppose,
But the Secret sits in the middle and knows.
- Robert Frost
 29 Morwen Edhelwen, Thu, 24th Jan '13 4:09:17 PM from Sydney, Australia
Tolkien freak
OK, what about "like in The Hobbit. Yeah, yeah, dwarves really like Tolkien"? AFAIK, it depends on which version of PP you are talking about.

edited 24th Jan '13 4:12:35 PM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
 30 Noaqiyeum, Thu, 24th Jan '13 4:12:26 PM from out of the night from pole to pole Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
the it-thingy
I think that part is fine, plagiarism-wise. I don't think anyone can sue you for simply acknowledging an inspiration.

edited 24th Jan '13 4:13:23 PM by Noaqiyeum

We dance around in a ring and suppose,
But the Secret sits in the middle and knows.
- Robert Frost
 31 Morwen Edhelwen, Thu, 24th Jan '13 4:28:10 PM from Sydney, Australia
Tolkien freak
-Sigh of relief that Tolkien Enterprises is unlikely to sue me-

edited 26th Jan '13 8:27:29 PM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
 32 Morwen Edhelwen, Sat, 26th Jan '13 8:31:50 PM from Sydney, Australia
Tolkien freak
[up]The situation with the dwarf Thorin is that he hates his full name because it's Thorin Oakshield and he gets frequent jokes about being a king (he's not a king, the monarchy is elective) and "where's your shield?"
The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
re: the name Gandalf:

Actually, Tolkien took the name Gandalf, and the name Shadowfax, for that matter, from William Morris's book The Well at World's End, published in 1896.

And, oddly, I feel I should point out that Peter Pan's fairy is named "Tinkerbell, " not "Tinkerbelle." A very minor quibble, to be sure, but there you are.

edited 27th Jan '13 1:01:26 AM by Robbery

 
 34 Morwen Edhelwen, Sun, 27th Jan '13 1:03:41 AM from Sydney, Australia
Tolkien freak
@Robbery: It also appears in the Voluspa, so it's possible that he was thinking of both.

re: Tinker Bell: Yes, but people spell it lots of different ways.

edited 27th Jan '13 2:47:57 AM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
 35 Morwen Edhelwen, Mon, 28th Jan '13 7:52:02 PM from Sydney, Australia
Tolkien freak
And also:
I must tell of the dwarves in Dvalin' s host; Like lions they were in Lofar's time: In Juravale's marsh they made their dwelling, From their Stone hall set out on journeys,

There was Draupnir and Dolgthrasir, Har, Haugspori, Hlevangur, Gloi(n), Dori, Ori, Dufur, Andvari, Skirvir, Virvir Skafidur, Ai, Alf and Yngvi, Eikinskjaldi, Fjalar and Frosti, Finn and Ginnar: Men will remember while men live The long line of Lofar's forbears.
How do I incorporate this into a backstory? I'm stuck.

edited 29th Jan '13 1:38:23 AM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
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