My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic SPOILER TALK THREAD

It's the heartless!

(sorry I'm obliged to make that joke when living shadows are mentioned )

edited 22nd Jul '17 1:25:59 PM by Ultimatum

Maybe Chryssy's back and the "shadow" is a reference to her impersonating people. We've never really gotten to see a Changeling's shapeshifting played for its espionage potential, changing shapes as the situation warrants and jumping from form to form in order to achieve a goal.

So far, they've largely stuck to Body Snatcher plots rather than Shapeshifter plots.

I don't think it's a stretch to think that Changelings are involved, given how the season opener went. And yeah, I think that Chrysalis' best bet is to stop trying to kidnap and replace ponies and instead just create a new persona and ingratiate herself that way.

Daring Done's been leaked.

An interesting connection and role reversal involving G1 in that episode is that both G1 and G4 now have a character named Somnambula. However, the G1 Somnambula was an evil witch of the Vain Sorceress type, while the G4 Somnambula is a heroic figure in her town's legend.

edited 3rd Sep '17 10:09:27 AM by Rainbow

>: Dammit Hasbro.

If anyone is interested, the synopsis for "Shadow Play" has been released.

• "Shadow Play, Part I": When Sunburst discovers the lost journal of Starswirl the Bearded, Twilight becomes obsessed with saving her magical idol from a thousand-year-old prison.
• "Shadow Play, Part II": With Starswirl and the other Pillars of Old Equestria back from limbo (where they've been trapped for a thousand years), Twilight and her friends must work together to defeat the Pony of Shadows.

I am so, so stoked. I have been looking forward to this ever since they revealed that the characters from the Legends of Magic comic were gonna tie into the finale.

edited 20th Sep '17 6:50:12 PM by Theriocephalus

This... this literally sounds like the plot of World of Warcraft Legion.

Me like.

So what I'm hearing is that if you don't read the comics, you can go ahead and get f*cked because this two-parter's going to be all about wanking off on how cool the comics are.

God knows we haven't had enough episodes doing that already.

edited 20th Sep '17 7:49:05 PM by TobiasDrake

If I can be honest, I highly doubt that that's going to happen.

Yes, these characters do appear in the comics and have stories beyond what was shown in the show, but I do not think the comics are going to be required reading for the finale.

Here is what I myself think is likeliest to happen, broad strokes. The characters were introduced and named in their respective episodes and had their personalities and personal histories laid down so that we'll know who in the world they are and why we should care about them rather than tying down way too much of the finale itself to do the same. I'm certain that there's going to be plenty of expositing in the finale proper, but this way they can work on the backstory itself — explain how these previously established characters met, who the Pony of Shadows is and what it's trying to do and how they got stuck in limbo in the first place, essentially pick up from where their debut scenes let them off.

As for the comics hot potato: the chief reason I don't believe that they won't be necessary to understand the finale's plot is because they haven't so far expanded on the characters in any truly significant manner. What I mean is, they don't gain any skills or handicaps or change or develop in personality or the like — the most you get a fuller picture of their personalities, but it's nothing that you wouldn't also get from five or ten extra minutes of screen time. The comic is what the comics have always been — supplemental publicity material so Hasbro can gain some extra profit.

Yes, I fully realize that it's too early to make accurate predictions and this can still turn out bad, but it's also too early to say it's going to be disaster, is the point I'm getting at.

EDIT: There's another significant reason for why I don't think the comics will be required for the finale: the finale is going to air at the end of October. The parts of the comic related to the actual backstory of the finale aren't coming out until November and December. If you needed to read them to get the finale's plot, I really don't think they would be released one and two months after it actually airs.

edited 20th Sep '17 8:41:43 PM by Theriocephalus

I'm not saying that the comics will be required reading. I'm saying that this will only really be interesting if you're a fan of the comics. This two-parter is being centered around a handful of characters who don't matter to the show and have never been relevant to our characters and their lives.

We've already had two episodes about fleshing out these characters at the expense of the relevant cast. I appreciate that there are plenty of people who are probably quite interested in the likes of Somnambula, Rockhoof, etc. But I'm not, because I don't read the comics, so for me, they just keep interrupting My Little Pony with these interludes about EU characters.

It's like stopping a Star Wars movie to spend thirty minutes having the cast eagerly gab about how cool the Thrawn Trilogy was. If I cared about that story, I'd be reading it right now instead of watching the main series.

edited 20th Sep '17 8:53:56 PM by TobiasDrake

Eh, it's not quite the same as that. MLP is an episode franchise, so having a Breather Episode that happens to be about in-universe lore isn't nearly as disruptive as stopping a movie halfway through.

Also, if they could incorporate it into the storyline in a logical way, then it could still totally work. Like having it be a plot point that some of the stuff from the Star Wars EU is actually canon (for instance if TLJ would have a scene of Luke giving Rey the history of the Jedi, and it happened to borrow from that material) wouldn't really diminish the overall effect for people who hadn't read or watched that stuff.

By that logic, we shouldn't have cared about anything that happened in "The Cutie Map", since Starlight Glimmer and Our Town had never mattered prior to this point. Or, perhaps more appropriately, we should not have cared about "A Canterlot Wedding", since Shining Armor and Princess Cadence had never mattered prior to that point (though I suppose Shining Armor could have stood to be introduced earlier).

Of course, all of those things - and others - did end up mattering as time went on, and they did have an impact on the Mane cast. Why, exactly, do you believe that won't be the case this time?

Because it hasn't been the case so far.

Daring Done did it better than Campfire Tales, mind. That was an episode that was really half Daring Do adventure and the other half was splurging over how cool this comic character is. Plus, Pinkie and Rainbow got to hang out, and the Mane Six actually being friends has been alarmingly scarce this season so that was neat.

Campfire Tales, however, was utterly atrocious. It was a vignettes episode consisting of the main characters literally sitting around a campfire fangirling about how cool the comics are, and it did not set a good precedent for how these characters are going to be treated.

In general, season seven has felt like it's embarrassed to be associated with its own main characters and themes. The idea of having the season finale revolve around a bunch of different characters from another medium coming in to take over the plot while our girls tag along and try to earn their respect just rubs me the wrong way.

It just sounds like a closing statement on a season-long argument the writers have been making, proclaiming that this show sucks and should be about literally anything else.

edited 21st Sep '17 4:11:05 PM by TobiasDrake

I get the gist of your argument, but I'm not sure why that's necessarily a bad thing just because the characters first appeared in the comics.

What I mean is, you can technically make that argument about any new major character, plot point or location the show introduces, since none of them have really gotten any foreshadowing before their full appearances. Going by your argument, why should we care about the seaponies and Capper and Tempest and the rest of the movie characters, if they've never mattered to the show and have never been relevant to it? Or why should we ever have cared about the big villains like Chrysalis, Sombra, Tirek or Starlight? They never appeared or affected the story before their appearances. I could say the same for other things and characters (Zecora, Cadence, Thorax, probably more I can't think of right now): they all got introduced all at once in their debut episodes — they did not impact the show or the characters in any preexisting way, no more or no less than the legendary ponies.

I guess the source of my confusion here stems from the fact that, if it turns out that the finale's story is entirely self-contained and you do not need to ever touch anything but this season's episodes to get the full effect, why does it matter that they appeared somewhere besides the tv show itself?

On a parenthetical note, I suppose the Star Wars example you brought up depends on what you a central movie. One of the major characters in Rogue One debuted in the Star Wars: The Clone Wars cartoon. He didn't have any other appearances until the movie. It didn't matter overmuch in that case because it only really mattered at that specific point that he was an old rebel who fought the Empire, the specifics of his backstory didn't really affect his role.

EDIT: Apparently we posted at the same time. My reply was to your previous post.

edited 21st Sep '17 4:14:11 PM by Theriocephalus

Right, I think I mostly addressed that in the new one. Basically, my issue isn't with the fact that they're new characters but how they're being implemented in a way that feels more like fanservice towards the comics. I have a similar problem with Daring Do, who I generally dislike because of her tendency to overtake the other characters. She gets one episode per season and it's typically a Daring Do adventure guest-starring Rainbow Dash, while the rest of the cast is politely invited to go f*ck themselves.

Shining Armor and Cadance were important because of their relationship to Twilight. Twilight was still the main character and the story still revolved around her. Starlight was important because she was an adversary for the Mane Six to confront; the Mane Six still drove the plot. It was still their story. That's important because this is their show.

The setup of Shadow Play feels to me like it's going to be about the comic characters more than the Mane Six. The framing of the comic characters as these legendary icons of Equestrian history that the Manes have already visibly fangirled over, led by Starswirl whom Twilight has fangirled over many times, doesn't feel like it's setting up for a story about the Mane Six.

It sounds like the Manes are going to be blessed by the opportunity to tag along with these awesome comic characters and maybe try to earn a pat on the back from them.

"To Where and Back Again" punking the Manes out of commission offscreen in order to have the story revolve around who I've affectionately termed the Legion of Doom was annoying, but it was tolerable because Starlight's spent time establishing herself and Trixie as C-protagonists within the narrative of the Mane Six's show. The comic characters haven't, and that makes it more intrusive when a finale two-parter is dedicated to them just sorta showing up to be awesome.

edited 21st Sep '17 5:01:11 PM by TobiasDrake

In that regard, I can see where you're coming from, although I don't think that is necessarily the intention, explicit or implicit, behind the new characters (to be honest, I got the opposite impression from that — that the Legends of Magic comic was intended as hype for the show characters rather than the other way around, chiefly since it's a completely separate title from the other comics that seems to have been created entirely to tie into some Season 7 episodes and so far hasn't done anything beyond that.)

As for whether or not the historic characters will or will not steal the show from the main characters... yes, I can see why there might be reason to worry about that. However, I also think it's still much too early to say that this or that or the other outcome is going to happen for a fact, given that all we have is two synopsis and extrapolations from past trends to go on. Yes, what you say could very well end up happening, but I'm not convinced it's as likely as your arguments seem to be implying.

That said, the synopsis for the first half of the two-parter seems to focus on searching for a way to break the imprisonment and that for the second half on the actual team-up, so to me at least it looked like the first part at least will be a Mane Six episode one way or the other. For the second half... as I said, I really do not think we have enough to make any hard statements. We'll see, I suppose.

I can agree that sidelining the main cast isn't the best move (That's definitely my primary criticism of this season), but I really fail to see how the fact that the historical characters are from the comic factors into that. Like I said in the other thread, that issue exists regardless of where the new characters come from. Like, opinions on Campfire Tales aside, the episode would've played out pretty much exactly the same and been subject to the same issues even if the stories had been original rather than from the comics. Just because they borrowed stuff from another part of the franchise doesn't make the stories any better or worse. I didn't even know they were from the comics until other people pointed that out.

The issue of the main cast being pushed to the side is definitely annoying, but from the way I see it, that's a completely separate issue from the source of the material that's pushing them aside.

edited 21st Sep '17 7:37:53 PM by JapaneseTeeth

I disagree, mainly because I don't think Campfire Tales would exist as an episode at all if there weren't comics to shill. That's pretty much its sole purpose for existing, at least so far as I can see. It's there to hawk merchandise directly at the screen. "Hey, did you hear about this character? You can go buy a comic that she's in right now!"

I know this show is already merchandise-driven but this was the first time I ever felt like an episode was literally just a twenty-minute commercial for a My Little Pony product.

edited 21st Sep '17 7:39:41 PM by TobiasDrake

Eh, I saw it as something more along the lines of the Hearth's Warming Eve episode. People have wanted to know more about Equestria's history for a long time, so an episode revolving around Equestrian folklore doesn't seem that strange to me.

I actually liked the way Hearth's Warming Eve handled it. It was an exploration into Equestrian history, but they also gave the Mane Six something to do in order to keep the focus on them.

<.< That the episode bribed me with Ship Tease for my favorite ship didn't hurt either, but that's not exactly a make-or-break requirement.

Similarly, A Hearth's Warming Tail also made use of the mane characters to stand-in for the characters in the story - which I still maintain was the product of Twilight getting smashed on eggnog and mixing up A Christmas Carol, How the Grinch Stole Christmas, and Starlight Glimmer's life story.

I'd still love to see an episode that's just a drunk Twilight ramblingly turning various classical pieces of literature into dissertations on how much Starlight sucks, while Starlight sits there trying to figure out whether to laugh or be offended.

Yeah, I'll readily admit that HWE did a better job of it.

Then again, if I was the one running the show I'd have been really strict about introducing new characters, at least after the first season or two.

I maintain that it's perfectly viable that the Equestrian version of those tales is just one mashed-up together.

Mind, Twilight could still be smashed, but that sounds like a hindrance in coherently ad libbing a few different stories together.

Uh, guys, the development of season 7 started well before the recent comics were written. It isn't the show taking stuff from the comics, it's the comics following the lead of the show and incorporating characters from upcoming episodes based on scripts and designs given to the comic writers. They even said as much during panels and in press releases.

I mean, the Movie prequel comics came out well before the movie, and I don't see you guys talking about the movie using comic characters. It's the same thing here.

That doesn't actually make them any less uninteresting. The problem isn't that characters who have appeared in comics exist in the show. The problem is that those characters overtake the show in their episodes.

I can't speak for anyone else but I, personally, am not here for Equestria. Empty worldbuilding for its own sake is uninteresting to me. I'm here for the characters I enjoy seeing. Equestria is the setting in which those characters are able to interact with each other.

If you've read the comics and are already invested in Somnambula as a result, I'm sure seeing her pop up in the show is probably great. I haven't, however, so she's less welcome than Daring Do so far as I'm concerned; another obnoxious intruder who butts into the show and goes, "F*ck your favorite characters, this is my story now!"

"A Health of Information" was actually a pretty good demonstration of how to integrate these characters in an unintrusive way, because it kept focus on Twilight and Fluttershy, 2/6 of the show's heart. They introduced and fleshed out Meadowbrook, but without the main characters suffering as a result.

"Campfire Tales", on the other hand, was a terrible place to start sliding the Legends characters into the show because it put half of the main cast into the spotlight just long enough to promptly shove them into the background and go, "F*ck these characters. This episode's about MY characters."

I can't speak for anyone else who's bothered by them, but if the Legends had kept to episodes like "A Health of Information", they would have been much more positively received by me.

edited 24th Sep '17 7:34:09 PM by TobiasDrake