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Needs Help: Cerebus Ret Con
Deadlock Clock: 10th Dec '12 11:59 PM
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Needs Help: Cerebus Ret Con get usage counts

Miss
The renaming option seems to be getting support here. Anyone have any ideas ? I'll stay out of the renaming thing otherwise because I'm biased towards keeping it a Cerebus snowclone (while taking away the retcon part), but acknowledge that if all Cerebus swowclones are going to be renamed sooner or later anyway (like some have suggested), this one may be a good place to start.

 52 nrjxll, Sun, 25th Nov '12 12:23:14 AM Relationship Status: Not war
I'm more or less neutral on getting rid of the "Cerebus" part.

 53 Septimus Heap, Sun, 25th Nov '12 12:42:24 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Definitively no to a rename. I don't see any problems so far that would justify it.

 54 nrjxll, Sun, 25th Nov '12 12:50:50 AM Relationship Status: Not war
[up]The trope is being redefined to no longer be limited to retcons. You don't see "being factually incorrect" as a problem?

Although I'll admit that the retcon name hasn't stopped people from including pre-planned examples already.

 55 Septimus Heap, Sun, 25th Nov '12 12:58:08 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
"reinterpreting" sounds still much like a retcon.

 56 nrjxll, Sun, 25th Nov '12 1:00:20 AM Relationship Status: Not war
That's poor wording, not anything about the trope. A better choice would be revealing.

 57 Septimus Heap, Sun, 25th Nov '12 1:04:21 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
So, Cerebus Reveal? I would personally like that.

 58 Noaqiyeum, Sun, 25th Nov '12 12:59:30 PM from across the gulf of space Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
the it-thingy
Cerebus Reveal addresses my concern.
DRYH
OEOE
NSUA
TTRD
Miss
Like it too.

Piffy
Sounds good to me.
Because underscores break everything: Working link to my Troper page
 61 nrjxll, Sun, 2nd Dec '12 4:46:48 PM Relationship Status: Not war
The "rename" option is still doing poorly in the crowner, though.

 62 Noaqiyeum, Sun, 2nd Dec '12 5:48:03 PM from across the gulf of space Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
the it-thingy
I can only vote once.
DRYH
OEOE
NSUA
TTRD
 63 lu 127, Fri, 7th Dec '12 6:34:24 AM from the Capital of Light Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
Setting clock for crowner call.
迷子の足音消えた 代わりに祈りの唄
 64 lu 127, Mon, 10th Dec '12 1:12:07 AM from the Capital of Light Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
Calling for redefinition. There is no consensus to rename.
迷子の足音消えた 代わりに祈りの唄
 65 nrjxll, Mon, 10th Dec '12 2:27:41 AM Relationship Status: Not war
So now we have a trope named Cerebus Retcon that's not limited to retcons. Go, democracy.

Does anyone have a potential rewrite prepared, or does one need to be written?

 66 Septimus Heap, Mon, 10th Dec '12 2:35:02 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
The redefinition looks like it's about retcons, unless I am badly misreading the crowner. I don't have a new description, though.

 67 nrjxll, Mon, 10th Dec '12 3:21:07 AM Relationship Status: Not war
[up]If the author planned it beforehand, it's not a retcon - otherwise "retcons" and "reveals" would be indistinguishable.

 68 Septimus Heap, Mon, 10th Dec '12 3:40:22 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Then I'd add Cerebus Reveal as a redirect.

Miss
I rewrote the tope to include non-retcons (and cases that made early gags more serious whitout necessairly being a deconstruction) when the option seemed to get enough support quite a while ago. It had however been changed to a rectcon-only thing before that. Didn't really check the examples for misuse based on the new definition, however.

edited 10th Dec '12 3:57:44 AM by Nazetrime

Not An Avatar
Why were the options separate in the first place? Doesn't redefining it demand a rename for simple reasons of wording?
We're not just men of science, we're men of TROPE!
Miss
[up] Before the crowner was created, the discussion got mixed up between :
  • People who wanted the trope to be retcon-only and create a new page for the planned versions. That option sort of got hijacked by people who didn't want the new trope to be a Cerebus Bad Snowclone VS people who saw nothing wrong with having Cerebus in the new page's title, that sort of went stale.
  • People who just wanted to keep the trope rectcon-only and the misuses to be kicked out of the page, which would have erased away a lot of examples that just needed a better suited page or to be accepted in their current one.
  • People who wanted to only change the Recton part of name and keep the (now overwritten)initial definition that had the trope name the only thing containing the word "Retcon". The inital definition broadly defined the trope as retroactively deconstructing early gags in the later part of a work that had gone darker over its run.
  • People who wanted to have the defenition include both intentional and retcon but saw nothing wrong with the name.

Overlap between the two last (eg someone in favor of both redefinition and renaming) wasn't really visible. That's why it got separated in the crowner. Just look at the first page of the discussion and you'll be grateful of how smoothly it's currenty going.

edited 12th Dec '12 4:02:51 AM by Nazetrime

 72 lu 127, Wed, 12th Dec '12 4:02:13 AM from the Capital of Light Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
It's a bad idea to mix a rename option with another, since it usually ends messy and confusing.
迷子の足音消えた 代わりに祈りの唄
 73 Septimus Heap, Wed, 12th Dec '12 4:15:00 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
To be exact, using a Page Action crowner for more than one yes/no option (As opposed to running several Single Proposition crowners) is a bad idea, as I've learned the hard way.

Retroactive Cerebus Syndrome? Cerebus Hindsight?

edited 12th Dec '12 7:23:53 AM by Prime32

 
 75 Septimus Heap, Wed, 12th Dec '12 7:24:28 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
^The rename option lost in the crowner.

Page Action: Cerebus Retcon
27th Oct '12 10:37:49 AM
What would be the best way to fix the page?
At issue:
Total posts: 81
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