Halo Humans vs Mass Effect Small Arms Weaponry: Whose is better?

@Spartans: The numbers thing may be true for the Spartans I-III, but the IV's probably have much higher numbers compared to the others.

They were also in orbit around Reach.

Do they hit with the force of four nukes? I geuninely don't know, but I do know that the main gun of a Mass Effect dreadnought does, and is much faster (130% of light speed) than a Super Mac round despite also being much smaller.

"The force of four nukes" is a meaningless measurement of power (or energy, as the case may be): We have nukes that hit with the force of 4 nukes. This is because (tested) nuclear weapons have yields ranging from about 10 tons (Davy Crockett) to 50 megatons (Tsar Bomba as tested, theoretical maximum yield of 100 megatons.)

Next: 130% of light speed is literally impossible unless the projectile is using some sort of FTL drive, in which case, it would still generally have to drop back into realspace/speed (which will be sublight) before it hits.

If my calculations are right, each Super MAC slug should have a maximum impact force of about 51.5 gigatons, which would mean that it is more than 1000 times more powerful than the most powerful nuclear device ever initiated. This does, of course, mean that for any value of "nuke" that can currently be realized (hell, the estimated total yield of every nuclear device ever built is about 5 gigatons), including "all of the nukes", the Super MAC is more than 4 times as powerful.

edited 4th Sep '12 12:02:10 AM by Balmung

@Mfan: Everest class gun shoot 150kg slug at .01-.013c...Super MAC shoot 3 ton slug at .4c...latter's power is WAY more...

edited 4th Sep '12 12:02:59 AM by onyhow

My source says that it's 0.04c, and I based my calculations on that. 0.4c pushes it up to 5.5 teratons. That is a truly unspeakably enormous amount of energy. We're talking "on the same order of magnitude as 100% of all remaining nonrenewable energy resources' energy output, or alternatively, the same order of magnitude as the amount of energy from the sun that strikes the Earth's surface every day.

edited 4th Sep '12 12:06:56 AM by Balmung

Eh from various places I read it's .4c, don't forget to use relativistic kinetic energy equation for it..(on phone right now)

edited 4th Sep '12 12:09:01 AM by onyhow

I'm not using said equations. I'm treating it as mundane kinetic energy and ignoring the effects on the mass of the projectile.

Also, at 0.4c, the effects are still trivial, only increasing the energy to about 5.8 teratons, an increase of only 300 gigatons (which, while a pretty impressive amount of energy, really doesn't mean much when added to 5.5 teratons).

edited 4th Sep '12 12:11:14 AM by Balmung

I'm serious, you want real power use relativistic kinetic energy equation...relativity makes the KE for projectile go much higher Thant he normal KE equation would suggest... Ten again the gamma value don't go high that fast until you hit around .86c...

edited 4th Sep '12 12:12:26 AM by onyhow

Check the edits to my previous post. I found a relativistic kinetic energy calculator, and the effects don't get particularly significant until somewhere around .8c. When you get to roughly .85c, you get fun stuff like matching the energy released by total annihilation of the mass in question.

So, in conclusion, one (1) Super MAC round at full speed has a kinetic energy equivalent to 5.869 teratons of TNT being detonated.

edited 4th Sep '12 12:16:37 AM by Balmung

That's why I say even Reapers are not going to survive it...

Oh wait, screw up 1 detail: Super MAC don't shoot 3 ton round, it shoot 3000 ton round...(and yes in the end those numbers are crazy)...although the speed of it seems to vary by source though? strange...

edited 4th Sep '12 12:49:46 AM by onyhow

Really, not much of anything would survive a direct hit from a Super MAC. I do not now what Reapers are, but I can assure you that that they would not survive a direct hit. I mean, we're talking about a weapon you could use to produce something to the effect of the K-T extinction event with a handful of shots from.

I was already calculating with 3000 metric ton mass.

edited 4th Sep '12 12:49:44 AM by Balmung

I dunno, some sites say .4c while others say .04c..still, that's way more powerful than any ME universe gun humans have access to...really though of someone has access To Fall of Reach to confirm it tit would be much better...

edited 4th Sep '12 12:53:02 AM by onyhow

According to one codex entry, Mass Effect ships may actually be a LOT more maneuverable than any ship period in Halo, especially the Reapers, who according to this entry are capable of completely reversing their velocity in under a second...at relativistic speeds...

The Halo wiki disagrees with itself, too. It gives "point four-tenths the speed of light" (which is itself ambiguous as to if it means 0.4c or 0.04c (logically means the latter, but I've seen people say/write that kind of thing for the former)), but gives the m/s velocity for 0.4c.

Still, 51.625 GT (gains about 100 MT from relativity) is nothing to sneer at.

Would a Super MAC round be capable of "glancing" off a planet(putting a trench in the surface of the planet that runs, roughly, 12k miles long) and then hitting it's target with comparable force?

Because that's the result of the only known weapon in the ME universe that's was capable of taking down a Reaper in a single shot. And it's unknown(but unlikely) as to whether or not there was any further assistance needed...

Such a round would be able to take down any Alliance ship(or any non-Reaper ship, really), though. But that assumes such a round would be capable of hitting those ships...

edited 4th Sep '12 1:05:50 AM by Swish

Possibly. I don't know enough about how such a collision would act, and I'm not sure if the trajectory would allow that, but it does at least seem plausible.

I think I'll let someone else point out the extent of the Cartoon Physics involved in the feat Archereon described.

I failed to include the added aspect of the fact that the three things(weapon, planet, and target) were each in different star-systems...

Mass Effect Fields. Those are the basis of everything within the Mass Effect universe. Mass Effect generators are used to increase or decrease the mass of objects. Low-mass fields can be used for FTL travel, accelerating slugs from weapons, or allowing for orbital drops without causing damage to the things that are dropped. High-mass fields can be used to create kinetic barriers(for individuals and starships), artificial gravity, or "nudging" space debris out of the way...

The Reapers are capable of generating the Mass Effect fields necessary to the point where they can stop or completely change direction in under a second. No other known race is able to do this though...

edited 4th Sep '12 2:09:28 AM by Swish

Gotcha. Magic. The only other Sci-fi race I can think of that could do that would be the Necrons, and that's because they have inertialess drives. In real physics, the going from .86c to .86c (roughly where something would have kinetic enrgy equivalent to what would be released by annihilating its rest mass with antimatter) in the opposite direction in under a second makes Rainbow Dash's most eggregious violations (pulling a 90 degree, zero-radius turn in less than half a second while simulatneously accelerating to mach 10, the forces of which should have pretty much atomized her) look mundane.

As for the range, Super MACs are normally used at in-system range, though distance would mostly just affect accuracy.

In "real physics", going from the going from .86c to .86c in the opposite direction in under a second is as implausible as going from a mass of negative 20 kg to a mass of positive 500 kg and back again in under 1 second... Both of which are possible in Mass Effect(with the right equipment and materials).

The entire basis of Mass Effect runs on Minovsky Physics. Any scenario(like this one) that crosses with Mass Effect has to take that into account, and adjust accordingly. Elsewise, the scenario isn't actually crossing...

edited 4th Sep '12 4:18:40 AM by Swish

It's been theorized that a Super MAC round would break anything. Even if a shield existed that could handle it, the sheer thermal energy released would vaporize it. And shields, Halo or ME, aren't designed to handle high temperatures, let alone moltenizing ones. Even says so in the codex.

edited 4th Sep '12 4:56:14 AM by MetaSkipper

I'm surprised no one has brought Krogans into this, who are basically a hyper-reproductive RACE of Spartans with Psychic capabilities.

The Reapers are basically Sufficiently Advanced Aliens (well, machines) that have existed pretty much since the beginning of the universe. That's why they're so powerful, and why nothing else in the setting can compare.

Since we obviously are no longer talking about just small arms. I'm suprised the Forerunners haven't beet brought up.

And the Geth, who bring a basically unlimited number of hyper advanced mechs to the table...