Shingeki no Kyojin/Attack on Titan (Manga Discussion)

Uh... for now, I think I don't like this chapter, and not because of the limited life span thing that fandom's shitting over.

It's cause I was satisfied that all my plothole nitpicks about Grisha had been filled up (more or less) by the previous chapters; however, this chapter has like dug up all those "for the sake of drama" plotholes and assigned them to the new character.

Jesus Christ, why didn't he just shift before those people were thrown off the wall? (I like that character who looked like a leaner version of Reiner.) Like he could have shifted before they went up the wall.

As for why I didn't complain last month, because I thought - well, maybe he had good reason but uh no...

Anyway, I'll just think that he's very severely depressed (with good reason), so my inner nitpicker will behave.

Wow, no wonder Grisha did nuthin whatsoever in preparing Eren.

edited 7th Dec '16 8:49:26 PM by probablyinsane

Kruger stated he was unsure if he would last. It appears using the Titan's power has accelerated his death.

I thought the exact opposite. I liked that this chapter added some ambiguity into Grisha's background and motivations (and to the whole Eldian history thing). I would have felt something was missing otherwise.

And yeah, nice but sadly untranslatable title drop.

edited 8th Dec '16 4:14:17 AM by Lyendith

Well, this chapter upped the gruesome.

That one soldier going pop, the whole family doused and burned alive, half of guy's body carved out by a Titan, Shifters have a limited timespan, Grisha just breaking down all of a sudden - somewhat understandable - and the sheer apathy on Eren's face... Oh right, both he and Armin are on the clock. Yeesh, poor Mikasa.

I presume this does not include ordinary Titans. Still, if this is true and all Shifters have 13 years at best, that puts... quite a few characters on the clock. I guess it's time to get Annie out of her crystal. How many years does Zeke have himself though?

edited 8th Dec '16 7:26:10 AM by FergardStratoavis

Wow, that's a really awkward title drop. It makes me wish all the more that the English version didn't have a stupid name.

Also, damn, Eren's going to die in, at most, eight years and Armin's dead in thirteen? Jeez.

Does anyone have any idea what the victory condition is? Is there any way for them to win this? How can this story have even a bittersweet ending (because there's no chance for a happy ending anymore)?

...huh. Well, that was interesting.

I assume they're going to get out of the time limit somehow. I'm guessing the nine Titans will be reunited, or something, and who knows what the consequences of that would be...

As for a victory condition? Well, other than what I just said, they'd probably have to eliminate Marley, assuming that hasn't been done already. (I have a pet theory that the war Marley was afraid of already happened, and Marley was wiped out, with the Shifter village being the only survivors. Otherwise I don't see why they'd be acting so desperate and using child soldiers.)

Barring that, I'm not actually sure how hard it would be to secure Paradise Island at this point. It seems there are far fewer Titans than everyone had been assuming, so if Zeke and Reiner were dealt with, they might just be able to kill them all. Then the only concern would be, again, reprisal from Marley...

Well, they do have the Coordinate, which is what everyone's been after this whole time. Maybe they're going to go meet up with the Eldonian Restorationists and try to complete Grisha's original mission?

People have limited lifespans. Everyone's on the clock.

We probably won't go that far forward in time to see them die anyways but 8-13 years is quite a bit. That means that Eren will live until he's 22 and Armin will live until he's 27.

It's sad but that doesn't make for a sad ending. Bittersweet endings are when the story ends significant amounts of sadness and happiness so if Armin and Eren die in the end and save their city from annihilation then that's a bittersweet ending.

It's bad writing to introduce an idea only for something to happen and then never do anything with it afterwards.

I guess one possible victory condition is for the main characters to at least conquer their island and start a new society without walls, using the nine titans as deterrent to avoid attacks from Marley. I can't see this ending better than a shaky peace between the two nations, which... would still be better than living inside walls, so it would still count as a "not bad ending".

Especially that one. I'm a bit annoyed when a super dangerous technique is supposed to reduce lifespan, but never does in the end. Like Tsunade in Naruto, who was in her fifties and used her lifespan-reducing jutsu two or three times, but is still alive and kicking in the Distant Epilogue (…I think she is? Can't remember very well).

Life-span reducing techniques in particular are one of the biggest offendors for not having consequences in fiction. I am not holding my breath.

I appreciate how the narrative acknowledged that the real truth about the past Elban empire is neither the truth of Marlowe nor the truth of Elban descendants. Owl is a nice character, too.

I like how the theme is still "it's not about revenge, it's about freedom", despite all the atrocities. Just like how Eren couldn't find the will to control his Attackon Titan ( :P ) by thinking about exterminating the Titans, but he found it by thinking about seeing the ocean, during the very first arc.

So no more Kill all the Titans eh?

Phew. Annie and Reiner ain't gonna be happy when they found out what happened to Bertholdt.

Re: Naruto - I dropped it after village got wiped out and resurrected.

If Shingeki gets a happy ending, I think it's going to be extremely jarring. With the "how the titan shifters work" reveals in this chapter, atm I just don't see a resolution which leaves both sides standing especially since one side seems tech-capable enough to be on the verge of inventing nukes.

Since I complained about all the drama plotholes being transferred from Grisha to the new guy, I'm going to add that I can't help but be horribly fascinated by this version of Avatar-Reincarnation concept.

Boy, this whole limited Titan Shifter lifespan is reminding me of Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots. Or maybe more appropriately, Kamen Rider Faiz.

edited 8th Dec '16 4:21:16 PM by LDragon2

This is a pretty common trope.

Cast from Life Years, basically.

Ultimately, it doesn't mean much unless the manga story progresses through 7 years.

Cast from Lifespan, I think.

I think most interesting thing about this is that it actually gives set time line

I mean, usually life span shortening techniques never actually say how big span they shorten :P So for all we know, it could be in terms of months.

Anyway, this sounds like actual super natural curse since the subject dies exactly after 13 months on exact time. If it was actually "cast from lifespan", it'd vary between person since people don't exactly have same physique or health

edited 8th Dec '16 9:31:36 PM by SpookyMask

I mentiond Cast from Lifespan more as the trope the above poster was thinking of. The situation is really more Your Days Are Numbered. The thing that strikes me is that if a Titan Sifter dies without passing their power on, it goes literally anywhere.

edited 8th Dec '16 10:21:46 PM by sgamer82

I think that last bit should be spoilered.

That's the bit that thrilled me the most this chapter.

edited 8th Dec '16 10:21:36 PM by probablyinsane

Done.

One thing that occurred to me with this chapter's reveals and Titans vs Titan Shifters. the Shifters are on borrowed time, while the mindless Titans are effectively immortal (or at least have no lifespan that we know of). If I remember right, present Ymir was apparently a Titan for decades, minimum, before eating Marcel and inheriting the Dancing Titan.

That was one sick chapter. I loved how the truth of the past is presented as ambiguous - that neither side of the conflict is likely in the right as far as history is concerned. There was likely propaganda and lies on both sides. Even Owl admits he's not in the right as far as his actions went. It really fits the tone of the series - it has always approached its mysteries analytically, but never discarding the emotional aspect of things. It doesn't matter whether the power of Ymir is magic or sufficiently advanced science, in the end it's just what it is.

Mikasa's reaction to how Eren and Armin's days are numbered is pretty understandable. Armin on the other hand seems to be taking it ok - probably because he knows that without the titan power he and Eren would be dead. As a human being, having a power that reduces your lifespan is horrible, but since they're soldiers, it's still extending their chances of survival.

(Incidentally, I read that according to the timeline it suggests that it's not so much 13 years but rather 13-ish - apparently Grisha managed to hold on for 15 years, although I'm not 100% sure whether this is right. Presumably this is because he didn't use it all that much. I haven't paid close attention to the timeline.)

I also love how Isayama is using the environment thematically. Grisha writes about the ocean at the start, and how everything was swept away in it, and it contrasts Eren and Armin's wish to see it. This and the last chapter are set on the wall between the island and the rest of the world - a border place, a liminal space. A place where Grisha is forced to reconsider that his actions weren't entirely righteous. And ultimately, how what gives him the resolve to carry on Owl's plan is how he's told that he was chosen not because he was angry at the world, but because he chose to go past the wall.

Really wonder what that means in relation to how our main trio has been in jail the past two chapters, too. Last chapter Armin was the only one outside the jail, and they were all three separated by the bars, but now it's Mikasa who is isolated from Armin and Eren, who are in the same room. Interesting.

Eren was only about 10 when Grisha died, so he probably had a couple of years left.

He'd be dead by the story's present day, though.

Grisha was already a titan shifter when he arrived outside the walls and it took him awhile to get set up his new life. So he probably was out of time.

re: passing on titan powers I remember being kinda confused before as to why Grisha bothered transferring the power to his son, who had no idea what the hell was going on, rather than continuing the fight on his own. Now we know that his days were numbered (we don't know how long it was between when he gained the power and Eren was born but he was definitely running out of time). Y'know, come to think of it, the morning of the titan invasion, Grisha said he'd show Eren the secrets of the basement. He must've not had very long if he was choosing to reveal everything at that point.

Also I can't get over the fact that he named Eren after this man. Like, does Carla know? How much does she know??