KOTOR (series)

Even with the Restored Content Mod, I still think the ending feels pretty abrupt and incomplete. Partly that's because it's going for a cliffhanger Empire-style ending, but there's also things like Bao-Dur suddenly ceasing to exist (apparently, he was supposed to accompany HK-47 and die saving Telos or something), the whole "you must choose whether to go straight for Kreia or save your companions" thing (which is partially restored, but in a way that just sort of opens holes, since you just find an empty jail bit of the map), and some other things throughout the game that'd probably help the finale with the Sith Lords have more build-up.

edited 30th Jul '15 8:44:54 PM by Lavaeolus

And Nihilus could have also been a bigger threat.

I mean, Nihilus goes around eating planets but he can't eat you because you're his kryptonite.

Nihilus is pretty hard-done-by, I think. On paper, he's a pretty ginormous threat and a great concept: a man so consumed by the dark side, he's not even a man, not even an animal, just a force of massive hunger, destroying whole planets in his wake. Hell, he's pretty much the reason the Jedi are all in hiding.

But, I mean, you see Visas, and get a lot of info from her, but it's pretty much all tell, not show. Sion gets a few notable scenes here and there, but by the time Nihilus does anything it's time for the final fight with him.

I've heard he's meant to be something of a shadow of the Exile or something, which could've been interesting but really isn't in the game.

edited 30th Jul '15 8:53:34 PM by Lavaeolus

I think he's supposed to be like what the Exile could become, if they fell to the dark side.

Question: Is referring to Meetra Surik as "the Exile" simply force of habit, or a conscious decision to ignore The Old Republic?

I mean, when talking about the KOTOR 1 protagonist, no one uses anything other than "Revan." Which, granted, comes up in the game itself, but still.

I don't care about canon, personally. Especially the shitty boring canon TOR created for the Exile and Revan. So I call them the Exile because as far as I'm concerned, their name is whatever the player wants it to be.

Plus, I'm pretty sure the name has existed since before the Exile had a canon name, so people are just more used to it.

So little column A, little column B.

edited 31st Jul '15 2:07:21 AM by Mukora

And besides, that 'canon' that Bioware created for KOTOR 1 and 2 isn't part of official Star Wars canon, not anymore, and for the time being, Disney's saying that it's leaving the Old Republic era alone, but they're still not canon, so people are free to make female or male Revans and Exiles as they see fit.

EDIT: This gives me chills every time I read it.

edited 31st Jul '15 2:23:17 AM by higherbrainpattern

And because of that, the KOTOR games are "canon" only to themselves.

Yes. That. Definitely that.

Do not underestimate my capacity for spite.

It's stated in the game. They're both traumatized by Malachor and the pain they felt in the Force.

The Exile severed themselves from it, while Nihilus became a festering wound, spreading that pain and feeding on it.

edited 31st Jul '15 5:50:01 AM by unnoun

In my case, partly out of habit, but mostly because "Meetra Surik" didn't appear in the game itself and isn't really the Exile, as I see it — it's the name of the "canon" interpretation of them. Which also makes saying things like "a dark-side Surik" or "a male Surik", or the opposite, kind of weird.

I don't think it's really explored though. Mostly Nihilus is just treated as the big monster/force-of-nature guy.

Well. Former "canon".

Not anymore, according to the corporate overlords.

I call her the Exile because that's all I ever knew her as.

That and Meetra Surik is a stupid name. And my Exile has always been male.

Also, people say "Revan" because he's referred to as that in the game. It's not a thing introduced way later.

Okay, thanks. I was just wondering after seeing it a lot here.

One quick thing regarding this:

and this:

Just because they're not part of current continuity doesn't mean that the various EU storylines are suddenly on little islands by themselves. They still exist as part of Legends canon. The way Disney's treating Legends is as a valid story that happened in one version of this universe, and is over now (more or less), while the new continuity is a new story building off the same foundation as the old one.

The KOTOR games still have to answer to the rest of the Legends canon. They do not answer "only to themselves," and the sexes of Revan and the Exile are not suddenly uncanonized.

I mean, you're free to disregard as much or as little of it as you want, but that's no different from how it always was with the EU. The change in continuity didn't actually change that. But it doesn't mean that they're "not canon."

Plus since Legends is now its alternate thing it's technically still existing, but it's just not now official canon and it can still be written in.

Well, I mean, they're not going to. Why would Disney want to promote a storyline that by design can't fit in with the very expensive movies they're making.

The only reason the book isn't 100% closed on Legends canon as a story is because The Old Republic is still updating.

TOR will probably only end when the Sith Empire breaks apart and fragments, then the New Sith Wars begin, which leads to Ruusan, then Darth Bane, then the movies begin.

In the upcoming expansion, apparently, the Empire (and the Republic) have already fallen, pretty much, with the Eternal Empire taking over. I think there might be remnants of the Empire/Republic you have to unite or something along those lines.

edited 31st Jul '15 11:56:41 AM by Lavaeolus

Yeah, I know, I've seen the trailer. But I wonder what sort of alignment they are. Is it like an empire of grey Force users?

I highly doubt they'd keep TOR running until they reach the New Sith Wars. The base game covers a 3-4 year period of time, between 3643 and 3640 BBY, and the first four expansions also take place during 3640 BBY. Knights of the Fallen Empire moves the story forward a grand total of five years, to 3635 BBY.

The New Sith Wars began with the Fourth Great Schism over 1600 years later, in 2000 BBY, and only ended after the seventh Battle of Ruusan 1000 years after that.

Well there's really nothing else that could cause a whole bunch of Sith states to suddenly populate the galaxy other than the Empire fragmenting. The Chagras Hegemony, Exar Kun, Ulic Qel-Droma, all of that stuff would have to leave some kind of power base behind. Maybe the game will end with the death of the Emperor and the Empire fragments into the holdings of the various Sith Lords.

Except they aren't. Disney now says they are no longer "canon".

And I say that it is my right to reject a story that inconveniences me.

Much less the asinine fridging and point-missing, character-derailing garbage that makes up the backbone of the shitty MMO.

Except they don't, and Disney will never care enough to change that.

There is no longer a canon into which KOTOR II can fit.

And that's liberating.

Being non-canon is better than being canon anyday.

Not having a canon is even better, but I'll take this one step at a time.

Until I can either buy out or declare war upon the Walt Disney company. Both of which might take a while on my salary.

EDIT: I basically feel about canon the way Kreia feels about the Force.

edited 31st Jul '15 2:58:41 PM by unnoun

TOR is non personal canon to me as well. Almost all the new "lore" I've seen from it is shitty to say the least.