Scottish Independence

Ugh, the British are gonna be smug over this for decades. They've only won the World Cuo once, and they've been boasting about it ever since. This will be similar, mark my words.

No offense meant to anyone◊

My thoughts:

Bear in mind I'm writing this after having smoked more cigarettes than I've ever smoked in one go and am also fairly drunk. So Yes campaigners can take heart in the fact that they reduced this Unionist to a nervous wreck for the past eight hours and forced him off the fag-free wagon

I have nothing but respect to the many Yes campaigners who gave up their time and energy to campaign for a Scotland they believed in. v My personal view, however, is that Yes became a political fairytale - to paraphrase Martin Kettle in the Guardian, a blank slate onto which voters could project their fantasies. The sad reality is that Scotland could not be a Scandinavian social democracy and a petro-economy at the same time. I fear also that Salmond's admirable plans to make us "the Saudi Arabia of renewable energy" would quickly have fallen by the wayside when the SNP realized how much cool new shit our putative oil wealth could buy. Moreover, I think that the SNP would quickly have been suborned by the very business interests they claim to be protecting Scotland from. In the modern age, capital is international; labour should be too.

But in the end, it wasn't the economics or the politics that swayed me, but simply the fact that I like England. I like the green fields, the neat hedgerows, the cramped pubs and the sprawling industrial towns. Most of all I like being able to visit my family without there being a border between us. As the Canadians say: And may those ties of love be ours/Which discord cannot sever.

That, ultimately, is why I decided to vote "No" today. Never have I been more proud to be Scottish - looks like we can still recognize old rope when we're flogged it.

edited 18th Sep '14 11:00:51 PM by Achaemenid

@bottom of last page: i'm 99% sure that's how that works in any government.

edit: didn't refresh before I posted, silly me!

edited 18th Sep '14 10:54:56 PM by OrionCK2

Numbers I saw showed that while Scotland pays a bit more in taxes, they also take a bit more in benefits.

So, my daughter's future was sold down the river because Achaemenid thinks england is pretty...?

Punctuation is important

You exaggerate.

edited 18th Sep '14 11:02:29 PM by LogoP

Not just me, it seems.

edited 18th Sep '14 11:02:34 PM by Achaemenid

I'm pretty sure that's accurate as is.

One thing, I give you. Thinking England is pretty isn't a valid reason to vote NO.

It takes a fairly wilful misreading of my post to get that, but OK.

edited 18th Sep '14 11:08:04 PM by Achaemenid

No, that's pretty much the daftest thing I've ever heard and our futures are fucked because lots of people thought like that. Well, at least they are all fucked too.

If it makes you feel better, such a resounding no means companies probably won't abandon scotland like they did Quebec. That was an utter shitfest the province still hasn't really recovered from.

Does one have to pothole Joking Mode everytime he's being facetious? It's plain unimagivative.

These are dire times we live in. It just ain't the right moment to try and set-up your own state.

edited 18th Sep '14 11:12:39 PM by LogoP

Thanks for sticking with us, Scotland. Fair to say I'm massively relieved.

It was only because of misguided sentimentality, nostalgia and greed. The next time we vote, most of the no camp will have died of old age and we'll get the right result.

edited 18th Sep '14 11:21:50 PM by InverurieJones

I'm not seeing how your futures are screwed because you're part of a large and relatively stable country rather than a small, unstable, and oil-dependent one.

edited 18th Sep '14 11:21:38 PM by WarriorEowyn

Oil-dependency is a no camp myth.

It's always better to control your own destiny than to be ruled by foreigners. Especially foreigners who don't understand, respect or even care about your country.

edited 18th Sep '14 11:23:59 PM by InverurieJones

Foreigners who are only a few hundred (?) miles south of you, on the same island.

edited 18th Sep '14 11:28:34 PM by tparadox

But who might as well be on the moon for all the difference that makes.

You speak the same language too, though I think that's because they made you, so bad example.

Odd thing to say from a camp that strongly supports EU membership. The UKIP could say the same thing, and the leaders of the "Yes" camp would strongly disagree with them.

How do you decide who's foreigners? Scotland could separate from the UK. The Highlands could separate from Scotland. Inverness could separate from the rest of the Highlands. One neighbourhood of Inverness could separate from the rest of the city. In each case, you'd have more local control, but lose out on all the advantages that come with being part of a larger group: economic integration, greater international influence, cooperating to fund a single military rather than each small enclave needing to have its own, less redundancy in the civil service, coordinated social services, more ability to work together to solve large problems. Some of those advantages - particularly economic integration and being able to work together on large problems - are also advantages of being in the EU.

edited 18th Sep '14 11:32:45 PM by WarriorEowyn

The SNP support EU membership. I don't.

Foreigners are people who aren't scottish, obviously.

The EU, like the UK exists to serve the interests of one member and one member only. It is fundamentally undemocratic and utterly corrupt.

edited 18th Sep '14 11:34:26 PM by InverurieJones

A lot of Scots feel British, though. And I certainly don't think of Scots as foreigners.