How do you know if you're a bad writer?

I don't know if it's my own personal bias speaking here, but whenever I look at my stuff (here: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13417029080A95476900&page=1#4 and here: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13427849460A00880100&page=1#2 if anyone wants to take a look). I think it's good, but then I get self-doubt and wonder, "what if it's really bad?"

So my question is, "Can a person know for sure whether or not they're a bad writer?" (I'm not saying I think I'm bad, I think I'm okay.)

I don't think your ideas are bad. Definitely different (which isn't always a good thing.), but not bad.

As for your question, the best way to evaluate whether or not your a bad writer is to get honest opinions from other people.

Its good that you have self doubts though, it shows your open to suggestion and improvement.

@saintbraeburn: The problem with that though is that "good writing" is pretty subjective. I mean, I think Tolkien was the greatest ever, but someone else mightn't like him.

Well in that case, you can't really say whether you're good or bad, because it depends upon the reader.

I wouldn't worry about it, though. Everyone feels like they're a bad writer at one point or another. The thing is to keep writing, because whether you're good or bad, you can always get better.

@Chocolate Cotton: Good point. What I was thinking about those was in stylistic differences etc which determine what the reader thinks is bad writing. IMO in some cases bad writing is subjective but in others (Twilight for example) etc, there seem to be a sizable percentage of people (me included) who think it's bad (the PURPLE PROSE! It's ''The Sheik" for teenagers without the rape!) I don't want to be the person who writes something and a huge percentage of people say, "This is crap." And I have no intention of giving up.

edited 22nd Jul '12 7:12:47 PM by MorwenEdhelwen

Eh, Twilight is thrown around a lot as terrible, but the thing is that the only reason it has such a huge hate-dom is because it's so popular. And the reason it got so popular in the first place is that a lot of people think it's awesome. I see what you mean about wanting fans to outweigh haters, but any known writer will always have some of both.

According to Dunning-Krueger, you probably don't.

I'm not a hipster who hates things just for popularity, but I still think Twilight is terrible. Characters have no personality and do anything only because plot wants them to. Characters hook up for no reason at all and even against any logical judgement. That all is topped by terrible writing style which makes me sick.

Posting this just so you know that it's not just hipsters hating Twilight. The only thing it has going for it is "hey, I'm romancing a dark and mysterious stranger" in the books and the male characters' bare chests in the movies.

edited 22nd Jul '12 9:16:30 AM by Kalontas

I think you're looking at it backwards, at least to a certain degree: Twilight is thrown around a lot as an example of bad writing because it's so well-known. Most people won't know what you mean if you rattle off some bad fanfiction (which, actually, I read specifically to remind myself that there is a level of writing where it's objectively bad), but they will have heard of Twilight.

Odds are you arnt a bad writer, but people will always disrepect your work. A few years back I read an essay by some guy who has lots of awards and prestige and shit in the literary review circle about how Harry Potter is the death of writing as an artform because its so impossibly bad.

Nowdays I can read any of a million hipster blogs and get the same thing about Twilight (as was pointed out above) and, if memory serves, a long long time ago a recently published trilogy about a halfling with a magic ring recieved similar treatment in many highbrow circles.

Thanks for the opinions guys!

To be honest, the willingness of people in this thread to blow off criticism as just "eh, hipsters/literati" really, really bothers me.

That was partially the genesis of my commenting on the Dunning-Krueger effect.

A lot of the criticism towards Twilight is perfectly valid. The part where it's popular garners it more criticism because everyone knows it as opposed to some obscure novel with similar questionable content and turns of phrase.

To answer the question, you honestly don't. It's hard to judge these things, as your to close to your work. I've heard lots of stories of authors working on something they thought was terrible, only for it to turn out to be great. And I've heard the exact opposite. Hard to say.

Now, you could go my route, and assume your bad...but that's probably not a good idea.

The only solid indicator of bad writing is technical quality: correct use of language and textual fom. Everything else is a matter of style and audience preference.

Not to make this thread about Twilight, but I wasn't defending it per say, merely saying that even a book largely considered objectively bad has a very large and devoted fanbase who think it's brilliant. I was attempting to make a point about the subjectivity of quality in literature.

And then there are a lot of people who acknowedge that Twilight is drivel but enjoy it anyway. Quality is not as subjective as taste. So, would you rather your writing be good or liked?

It's "per SE". Why can't anyone ever get that right?

Sorry, I'm a stickler for proper grammar. :D

Generally, if there are more people saying that you need to improve than there are people who say you don't need to improve, you need to improve.

Or you're talking to the wrong people entirely.

I believe that everyone even a good writer can improve somehow. Since no one is perfect, they can always improve.

I prefer to believe that I am a decent writer who still has lots to learn. It's better than believing you are a master writer because that tends to cause an ego and closes you off to taking critcism, and also better than believing you are a awful writer because if you think that all the time it will probably make you feel bad all the time.

@Oh So Into Cats: Both, ideally.

I think that if you can enjoy something you've written, it's good. If even you're wishing for death by the final chapter, it's... not so stellar.

Of course, that's just my opinion. It's how I judge the quality of my own work :/