Justice Avengers: Discussion

Sure, just PM me the link to the Google Docs page.

@san

Sounds great!.

I petition that this be what Superman looks like.

Hmm, I don't like the shorts (I prefer the classic look better) but otherwise, nice.

@Liz: No, no, I'm good, I've just been snatched up in the jaws of a school thing. I'll post either tonight or tomorrow.

@KK: ok, but now that it IS a coincidence Q will find some way to explain how it isn't

But the shorts are FROM the classic look, aren't they? 'Cause he was supposed to look like a Circus Strongman?

Yeah, but those are ridiculously long- they look like bike shorts!! (though I would still take them over the recent Superman-in-brown-pants look he had in the new 52 reboot- the Heck was that?)

That reminds me of another controversy: what should the Wonder Woman costume in Batman v. Superman be like? Now THIS one is hot, with people claiming her classic outfit is sexist. Bullsh*t I say. Sure it has a lot of exposed skin, but it's been that way from the start. It isn't like it was revamped to make her look sexier. And Diana has always been a feminist character. I'm more worried about how she will be played than about how she will look in the movie. Hopefully they won't make her into a jerk like she was in JLA: War.

(That said, it isn't as if her wearing pants or a jacket, as has been suggested, would be THAT bad. I would not go for a Greek Warrior look, though- too dated.)

'JLA War' nothing; her portrayal in the recent live-action pilot makes that version of her look like a saint.

As long as it isn't up to the absurd thong nonsense it sometimes got to with Diana before the Reboot. I'm actually interested to how they're going to go with the actual style of the costume. Like, will she keep the red white and blue shenanigans?

If the teaser trailer displaying Superman is anything to go by, she- and every other superhero in this DC Cinematic Universe -is going to be a grim, gritty, melancholic bag of dicks.

Okay, maybe that's a little unfair to say, I mean I haven't seen any footage yet. But the chances are pretty good, I think.

Pants to be darkened!

edited 9th Jul '14 3:24:34 PM by LizardOfAus

Well I never really liked Wonder Woman to begin with so it makes no difference to me.

On a different topic: I finished reading the Icons rpg (well, the character creation section anyway. ) Here's my opinion, for what it's worth:

-The default character creation is random; that is, you roll dice to choose the powers, abilities, etc. and then make up a character. Yeah, I think most of us wouldn't make (or adapt) characters that way. Fortunately there is an optional rule that allows to buy things using points, like in other superhero games. There's also a limit of having only one power at higher than level 8 (most likely for game balance, after all these are supposed to be starting superheroes, not old pros.)

-The powers list is very extensive with plenty of options (though you can often tell which comics characters they got the idea from- but that's OK, most of us just use these games to play as those characters (or Expies of them) anyway!)

-The list of specialties (skills) is similarly good.

-The one area where the game disappoints a little, in my opinion, is in the Aspects. Aspects are either positive or negative qualities that affect the story and help the character earn and use Determination points (which in turn are used for things like power stunts.) Most games have well-described lists of these; here the player is basically told to just make them up, and while examples are provided, their effect is not very clear.

There are also Abilities- what are called Attributes in other games- you know things like Strength, intelligence, etc. There are six here: Prowess, Coordination, Strength, Intellect, Awareness, Willpower. My biggest problem when adapting heroes to games has always been with the attributes, because the source materials rarely describe those in detail. For example, in Captain America's case we know he's suppose to have the highest levels of human physicality without being superhuman; in this game that would mean a Prowess, Coordination and Strength score of 6 each. But he's definitely the exception.

-And the characters- Oy Vey. Check out some of the villains: Arrobas (you know, the @ symbol), Confederape The Southern Gorilla, The Octofather (Octomom + Godfather, get it? ). Still, if you check the Wiki, you see some cool characters there (the system seems well suited for DCAU characters.) I'm thinking of testing it by adapting Access. I'll post him here later.

edited 9th Jul '14 4:31:09 PM by Sijo

...Is anyone going to post for the Mystique/Raze/Rogue thing?

Okay, I should explain why I haven't posted in New York or Jump City or Hub City in a while.

The reason is that since my vacation days are coming up (they start after this weekend), I'm taking care of everything at work so that I have a clean slate. And when I mean everything, I mean everything.

Meanwhile, the day after tomorrow I will be leaving for Taiwan for two and a half weeks and thus might have much time to try and follow this and other threads, let alone possibly post.

It's Ok guys, we all have lives that have to come before the games. Just remember to let us know ahead if you won't be available for a while (assuming you get the chance.)

On Wonderwoman.

She is probably the least liked superhero of the most loved superheros and probably the least popular of Dc's trinity for the general public. Sure feminists and comic book fans (That have access to good WM stories) love her but I could bet money she is less popular than the avenger's trinity , Loki or even Sailor Moon. I would even dare to say that starfire from the teen titans tv show is more popular to the young than she is.

I think what holds her back is that writers worry so much about writing a "strong female character" and trying too hard to please the people that usually complain of "sexism" that they forget to write a good character.She has the potential to be much more popular than she is now imo.

Unfortunately she also has the issue of having the least relatable origin story of dc's trinity. Superman has his clark kent persona ( a man being adopted by a kindly couple) and batman has his tragic origin ( a man turning injustice into good). But I don't think "being a clay figure being given life by the gods" and "living in a female only island where you don't age" is as relatable as it was in ancient Greece, with heroes like achilles and Hercules, even Black widow from The Avengers is a more relatable female character than her.

I love her as she is and I don't mind her origin story. But it is an issue when trying to get more people interested on her like The Avengers did with their characters.

edited 10th Jul '14 11:51:28 AM by RPGLegend

Okay, reasonable enough.

RPG: I totally agree with your reasons why people have trouble with Wonder Woman. I've always liked her, but her origin as a clay baby bothered me because it meant she wasn't "real" (some stories actually had her revert to clay!) There was also a retcon that all the Amazons were the reincarnated souls of women murdered by men (huh??) I also never liked that they took away her secret identity; Ok, so technically she doesn't need one, but it allowed her to socialize as a normal person instead of as a superhero or an Amazon. In cases like this, you don't retcon away such elements, you explain them.

There's really nothing wrong with Wonder Woman that good writing cannot fix. Let's hope that for the live-action movie (which I hear has finally been approved?) she'll get it.

edited 10th Jul '14 7:04:51 AM by Sijo

Actually, Vampire Bhudda came up with an... alternative idea for Wonder Woman's birth, back in the Marvel DC Merged Universecommunity Project thread, though it only really works in a setting where both Marvel and DC co-exist. (Like this RP.) Basically, Hippolyta was the original Golden Age Wonder Woman during WWII, like in the comics for a while. Eventually, she hooks up with Captain America. (Literally.) Soon enough, baby Diana is born; not from clay, but from her own mother's womb. As for the father, he got frozen in an ice block before he ever got wind of his and Hippolyta's little surprise. And since the Amazons are effectively immortal, Wondy can still be a young twenty-something despite being born in the 40's. It also provides an alternative explanation as to why Wondy dressed up in the red white and blue; because that was what Captain America dressed up in.

edited 10th Jul '14 8:52:41 AM by kkhohoho

...That...is a brilliant idea.

Shame it can't really work here, though, seeing as...well, supposedly Diana was active during the Golden Age of this 'verse. Currently, Artemis is acting as the Amazon ambassador.

Well, that'd be better than the last universe where Cap dillied around before getting frozen and made an offspring. Red Skull.

Ultimates is just fucked up like that...

'Supposedly' doesn't mean definitely. But here's an idea; what if Hypolyta decided she didn't want to use her real name when going out into Man's World as Wonder Woman? What if she decided to use a different name, for cover? Soon after she departs Themyscara, she saves the life of a female pilot named Diana, who gladly lets Hypolyta use her name as thanks. So, in effect, Hypolyta was also Diana during the Golden Age. Then, when Hyployta's daughter is born, she gives her the name that she used as Wonder Woman in Man's World.

How does that work?

Hippolyta and Diana are mentioned as two separate people, and Diana very briefly showed up.