Franchise/Rance (P5 only)

The character in question is the same age as the other characters, but looks much younger as a blatant attempt to appeal to readers/viewers such as (presumably) that roommate. She's more of an also-ran than a serious contender for the harem in question, but yes, her portrayal was treated as significant in that thread.

Then the above parallel between the two and their "Problematic material" does fall short because Kiss Xsis contained a limited degree of instantaneously damning material, while... Our trusted sources have not found any on this.

I only mentioned Kiss X Sis because Meeble claimed to have voted devil for it for reasons I don't agree he should have. Personally, I thought it was cut by being pedo-pandering.

(btw, why is Kiss X Sis a blue link now?*

EDIT:Well, that is just weird. It was blue just a moment ago.

Now it is red in this page and blue in the previous one... weird*

edited 16th Jun '12 1:01:59 AM by Heatth

If you're looking for instantly damning material, this part of my quote should suffice:

This is the kind of thing we've cut other works for in the past.

And can we please stop the discussion on Kiss X Sis? It was only brought up as an example of "borderline work that may not have strictly fallen one way or another, but was pushed over the edge due to problematic content." If you disagree with that decision, that's fine, but this is the Rance thread so let's not belabor the point.

How could it be pedo pandering? Her behavior apparently doesn't give her actual age away since it's supposed to be a surprise and her appearance doesn't show it.

She looks like an adult at the time so no pedo pandering, just a bad case of WHAT HAVE I DONE!?

Is it meant to be pedo-pandering? Possibly not. But is the protagonist raping a prepubescent girl a major issue among a long list of other issues I mentioned? Most certainly.

In the end it was necessary to continue the plot, Rance is not a "bad guy", he's got a warped set of morals due to his upbringing. As someone that's played the entire series, it saddens me to see so many people damning it without first hand experience of the characters, Rance is a series that has spanned 23 years and has a vast and incredible world, disregarding these things because you disagree with some elements is very unprofessional.

He made his decision. Let's just leave it at that. The other P5 are needed to resolve the matter one way or the other anyway.

Well, Yeah... That is messed up.

But a viewer would have no way of knowing, and they have reported that the protagonist felt extreme guilt over it when they learned of the fact, so I would argue that it falls into an extremely grey area.

Edit: Rance is not morally grey, He is a massive stinking bag of human excrement. The choice to cut is the grey area. I would not blame them either way, but it is an isolated incident in a series... Regardless. I take my leave on this thread.

edited 16th Jun '12 3:02:08 PM by Roraborialis

What exactly makes Rance a "massive stinking bag of" what I assume you mean excrement? He's very tame and a good man compared to other characters presented in the series, and regardless of motivation he's still heroic and a good friend.

Probably because he rapes people and is motivated primarily by boredom rather than the thought of actually helping people.

I think things are getting a bit out of scope here.

Does it pander to pedophiles? No. Is it primarily pornographic? No.

Does anything else really need to be said?

So because Rance is a rapist and an unconventional hero, that makes him vermin? He's far from a villain, how fucking ridiculous.

It is a moment of harsher in hindsight that is the only thing that could potentially be counted as cutlist worthy, but thats harsher in hindsight for you, coupled with a righteous negative portrayal, and a how could you tell (Although that is a weak defense. This is probably the only time it will EVER be significant.)

edited 16th Jun '12 3:04:29 PM by Roraborialis

I don't believe I said that. I'm pretty sure I said he wasn't heroic. And he's not. You cannot be heroic in this day and age if your motive is pure 100% hedonism of the selfish variety. Does he do good things? Yes, if it amuses him, but that doesn't make him a hero.

I am pretty sure Rance's morality doesn't concern this topic. It is as Oroboro said, we are discussing things not related to our rules.

edited 16th Jun '12 3:11:39 PM by Heatth

Well, we're arguing in circles anyway. I think the P5 have all the information they need and since people like to argue endlessly about this one (me among them) it ought to be declared P5 only.

Pray tell, how much of the franchise have you played or read up on? Whilst Rance's motivation is often hedonistic, that is merely a starting point. He often finds another personal reason to stay, Sengoku Rance is the most accessible for English Readers so I'll use that as an example. He decided to rule Oda as a way of showing off to his friends, but when things became very troublesome he still stayed to protect Kouhime and JAPAN from destruction, there is an option to just leave and go back to the continent, showing that it's a possiblity, but doing so triggers a bad end. Rance is a heroic figure, just not in the conventional sense. Also, you said "In this day and age", Rance is set in a psuedo-medieval time period. Hedonism is not 100% of Rance's motivation.

Okay, this little digression is really, really interesting, but... I think us P5 Guys have enough dirt to make a proper choice for this series now. It's P5 Only from here on out, okay?

Okay, now that I've had some time to think it over, I'm gonna give this a devilhead for pretty much the same reason that Meeble stated: between all the rapes, the general premise of the game, and the fact that one of your "conquests" is a prepubescent girl, there are just far too many problematic elements to let slide. Even without all the rapes present in them, they're on the borderline... at best. Sorry, but as far as I'm concerned, this gotta get da steppin'.

Counting mine, that would be the third devil-head vote. I've gone ahead and resolved it from the queue, but before I send the cut request for the various pages I wanted to make sure that this decision also applies to Sengoku Rance for the other panel members, since that previously got a pass. I know my vote on it has changed given what I discussed in this thread, but wasn't sure if that was the same for anyone else.

Pre-pubescent girl, what? Where'd you hear that?

The Let's Play of Rance 2 that was linked previously mentioned that one of the girls Rance saves via rape is a child, who was magically aged up by the ring that turns them evil.