Sexism

The problem here is that we have a higher demand of literary porn for women and a lower consumption of visual porn. You offer, one of many possible, explanations for the latter but none for the former. The assumption is that women are somehow held out of the porn market.

It would also be interesting if porn producers are, for the most part, satisfied with the third of their customers who are already female, so they see no need to expand into a market they already think to hold, which raises the question if and how much marketing primarily towards men holds women back here. I also think it's a growing trend to market some porn especially towards women right now. The numbers for that would be interesting.

Culture is the exact thing which makes this so complicated. There is no human society without it, so how should we judge what the default situation would be like? That female prostitute are generally more numerous and expensive than male ones also shows a disbalance in the perceived value of sex by either gender and I find it hard to argue that we somehow are supposed to make out with nearly everyone, regardless of factors that are dependant on gender.

That leaves open as to why erotic novels are marketed so heavily towards women. Normally I would expect the older medium to be more conservatives and hold onto traditions, instead of the complete opposite appearently.

The explanation would be that women compensate the lack of visual media with literature.

There is no default situation. But that women have a sex drive too that doesn't have to hide from men's should be apparent.

Women's sexuality is more controlled and regulated in most society's making female sex partners harder to find. There are less prostitute for females because males are not under the same restrictions and hence easier available for women.

That's a bit hyperbolic. Not everyone would have the same sex drive and preferences with no restrictions but that there would be a lot more sexual sluttery for sure. It could just mean having two partners not two hundred.

They're easier to make by just a few people in contrast to movies. If they're really marginalized that would be important.

I'm not sure to what extend preferences are influenced by culture. But given that beauty ideals changed over time I'd say they are at least in part. But porn does indeed show that not everyone fancies the same.

True, but the female fertility cycle is hidden in humans. This means women can, want and do have sex even if they cannot conceive. This is because sex serves further functions than mere reproduction.

But why would writers produce female orientated work in the first place when movie makers primarily target men? We have two cases of media where we have producers and consumers and you seem to want me to believe that one is dictated by the former and the other by the latter, with no real reasons beyond that.

This is a more reasonable and definitive argument. However, books are still very much under the control of publishers and while self-publishing and such gets more common, the book industry is still an industry like any other under the same pressures and influences. I just don't see how they are somehow able to move in the complete opposite direction, when porn movies are supposedly influenced to a degree that they move contrary to market forces.

But why would writers produce female orientated work in the first place when movie makers primarily target men? We have two cases of media where we have producers and consumers and you seem to want me to believe that one is dictated by the former and the other by the latter, with no real reasons beyond that.

Lower barriers to entry. Movie-making usually requires a shitload of resources that women are statistically less likely to have. By contrast, poetry and literature requires relatively little to produce, which is why it's long been one of the most female-keyed form of art. It's the same reason why Most Fanfic Writers Are Girls, and why they're heavily represented in web-fiction in general.

Regarding porn in particular, it's worth considering its history. A couple of centuries back, erotic fiction was fairly gender-equal (discounting general industry biases favouring men at the time). However, male-targeted porn seems to have been a faster adopter of most newer forms of media technology, with the more traditional stuff getting left behind and (mostly) dying out in the pursuit of a better boner, whereas female-targeted stuff seems to have had a considerable lag, and if you're first in, you're pretty hard to dislodge because you then get to shape the market to suit you.

edited 21st Mar '14 11:52:04 AM by Iaculus

What's precedent ever done for us?

Could the differing mechanics of solo pleasuring between the sexes also influence written vs visual media demographics in pornography?

I think one other influence is that female bodies get depicted and objectified more in general, not just in porn. We get used to it through advertisings, movies etc long before we even develope an interest in porn. Not so with male bodies however. (Half) naked, eroticized male bodies are rare to find in contrast to female bodies and thus less women might develope a strong focus on visual representations.

Male superheros drawn in female superhero poses.

Illustrative. Poor Captain America. He looks like his back is about to snap.

edited 22nd Mar '14 6:17:03 AM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei

They should put the originals on that for comparison.

I'm baaaaaaack

They put a link to the original below each image.

Put me in motion, drink the potion, use the lotion, drain the ocean, cause commotion, fake devotion, entertain a notion, be Nova Scotian

Above, actually. It's a request-response format.

What's precedent ever done for us?

I liked the one with The Joker.

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Lol...Nightwing isn't far of from how he's usually drawn.

He's the only male character regularly sexualized on the level of the ladies.

edited 22nd Mar '14 10:45:09 AM by KingZeal

There is also some active, conscious sexism at work in visual media. For instance, consider the case of Cartoon Network, whose executives began pulling shows that gain too much of a female following because "We do not want girls watching this show. Girls do not buy toys."

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

...The lesson that Avatar The Last Airbender and The Legend Of Korra teaches just doesn't filter through, does it?

The broader the base, the longer the buying lasts.

Yeah, but that was Nickolodeon. Companies don't learn valuable lessons from the successes of their competitors. They make shallow attempts to imitate superficial aspects of those successes and then scratch their heads and wonder why it didn't work.

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

What kills me is that they didn't consider learning from their current competitor that turned a profit off it's Periphery Demographic

edited 24th Mar '14 10:09:07 AM by RhymeBeat

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.

I've argued before in defense of Pokémon, My Little Pony, Transformers, and so on being Merchandise-Driven franchises, because I believe they are putting out a good product, and children are buying the toys because they like the show so much, not because they are being "brainwashed" or forced to buy the toys. As a kid, I actually remember being advertised to quite a bit, and in fact, I'd say girls are urged to buy toys even more than boys are. I remember getting a Barbie doll, and then seeing four or five other outfits displayed at the store, all sold separately.

edited 20th May '14 8:57:39 PM by GovernorExplosion

“Dude, sucking at something is the first step to being sorta good at something!” - Jake the Dog

Kids don't buy toys. Parents and family buy toys.

Parents need to be aware and govern the media their children consume. In a world with Google at most people's fingertips, there is little excuse.

When my son starts asking or telling me about something he learned or observed from the kids at school or while he is at his dad's house and I don't know it, a quick Wikipedia or You Tube search on my phone helps me to decide if this is a good or bad thing for my kid.

Also as a parent it is my active duty to give my son positive experiences to begin with. These should be prescreened and communal experiences to help set the standard for the kid to judge for themselves if the new media they see on TV or the kid from school talks about is good or not.

Its called being involved and guiding them aka parenting.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur

On a related note, parents often project their gender values onto their children via the type of toys they buy them. This is notoriously evident in how some dads and moms freak out when their son wants a product that is coded feminine.

You should bring up the issue that arose when a vote was taken on how to design LEGO toys for boys and girls.

Good point.

Lego had a poll where they had people vote on what playsets they wanted to see next. One of the winners was the Lego Friends line, a very pastel set geared towards girls with horses and house sets, etc.

People including Feminist Frequency, started pitching a bitch fit about how it was supposedly sexist. However it was made by popular vote which I think is very unfair to Lego. Also demonizing traditionally home like sets and toys isn't fair to the children of whatever gender who wish to play with such things.

Another example is the Easy Bake Oven. They still have their pink model, but they also have a blue and a brown model too. Fisher Price and Little Tykes are the two brands that make the playsets. They're making more gender neutral kitchens and workbenches opting for browns and in the case of the workbench, brand colors like orange and black or yellow and black.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur

The problem I personally have with Lego is that they dumb it down for girls. I don't mind bringing in home sets and horses and princesses and fairies, because to be honest, a lot of girls do want to play with that sort of thing. That's a great idea to get more girls playing Lego.

My problem is these girl Lego sets aren't compatible with the regular Lego, and never have been, the ones when I was younger were twice the size of normal Lego with half the pieces, and then they kept bringing out completely different sets that didn't work together so you couldn't combine it with the other Lego or begin a collection. Even though they had girl characters and houses that me and my sisters probably would have played with, it just wasn't worth giving up normal Lego for, and my parents wouldn't buy it because it didn't last long enough for it to be worth the money. The 'regular' Lego used to be great fun, and me and my sisters used to love it, but it was definitely aimed at boys. Me and my sisters just stuck to the normal Lego, and had to fight over the one girl character we had.

I wouldn't have even thought Lego was a toy that had to divide genders, to be honest.

edited 21st May '14 3:05:24 AM by QueenPanic

How do you mean not compatible? The bricks don't fit, or they have a completely different colour scheme? And when you mentioned twice the size, my first thought was Duplo, which is twice as large but still mechanically compatible with the traditional ones.

People, especially FF, yell sexist the moment something seems to play into any gender roles whatsoever. Well, negative ones for women.

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The bricks don't always fit together, and the characters are a completely different size and shape. Thy people also less cartoony and not yellow, so they look mental together.

Different colour schemes would be great. I would have loved a few pink or purple or sparkly bricks when I was smaller, even if that is a bit stereotypical.

Having gender roles is sexist. It assigns a role to you based on your gender. If that's bad or not is opinion, that it is sexist is a fact.

Doesn't mean that everything that's sexist is something you have to yell and complain about.

I don't think I've seen any Lego bricks that didn't fit with others.

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