Does Not Illustrate: Darker And Edgier

I get that it's supposed to be an edgy version of the smurfs, but we're referring to changes in darkness and/or edginess, and it doesn't show the lightheartedness of the show it's parodying. Sure, it's a pretty well-known show, but page images aren't supposed to rely on familiarity with a given series.

Oh, and it also doesn't pothole to the image the parody is from. (Unless the parody is Smurfs official art, which I doubt.)

Of course, before we start looking for alternatives perhaps we should discuss how this would best be illustrated.

"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart

It's a good image. There may of course be something better to replace it with, but please don't start IP threads without a suggestion for replacement.

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.

That's only required if one uses "suggestion". One can find an image poor and still make a thread.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

1. I said "please", not "the rules require it sieg heil!"
2. Unless it's an insta-pull I don't think the reason matters, should still make a suggestion.

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.

It's a good image. Looking at the image, it is patently obvious that the Smurfs were originally bright and cheery, at least more so than they are in the image.

I'm not crazy, I just don't give a darn!

I already stated why I didn't suggest a specific replacement; I figured it may be best to decide what sort of image would demonstrate this before basing image selection on that.

In hindsight, though, perhaps it may be better to start with some alternatives. First off, one contrasting 60s Batman with 2008 Batman.

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"Obvious" in what sense?

edited 3rd Jun '12 5:09:31 PM by HiddenFacedMatt

"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart

Common sense, that's what sense. It helps that it's potholed to The Smurfs.

ETA: That's a good image too.

edited 3rd Jun '12 5:42:16 PM by FinalStarman

I'm not crazy, I just don't give a darn!

In the sense that they are cartoony, I think. The Batman image is okay but when I see a multi-panel page image, I die a little inside. Also there are a whole lot of Bats pics on This Wiki.

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.

I like the current as it shows a Smurf (a kid's cartoon character) smoking a cigarette and another Smurf giving an unnecessary Panty Shot thus showing the adolescent nature of the 'edginess'

I prefer the smurfy one.

Batman has gone up and down this trope way too many times to be a coherent example.

The Internet misuses, abuses, and overuses everything.

So are anime characters.

This is one that needs to be multi-panel, since it's about a change in the tone of a series. It needs a "before and after."

Well hey, I only mentioned the Batman one as an example of an alternative to get things moving. There are all kinds of series we could use.

The page quotation mentions Toy Story; perhaps we could use a lighthearted screenshot from one of the earlier Toy Story movies, juxtaposed with a screenshot from one of Toy Story 3's prison scenes, of which the prison episode thread already has plenty; alternatively we could use something from the landfill or incinerator scenes, but that might be too spoilerish.

Except that this isn't about "edginess" compared to some external reference point. This is about "edginess" compared to something earlier in the series. Knowing that The Smurfs are a children's cartoon relies on familiarity with the series, something that is IIRC supposed to be irrelevant to page images.

"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart

Change can be depicted without showing a before-and-after. Anything can. Nothing ever needs to be. Ever. That assumption is definitely part of the dying inside.

edited 3rd Jun '12 9:02:30 PM by rodneyAnonymous

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.

Unless it's two images in a single frame, a change does visually need a before and after. It's impossible otherwise.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

Current image is hilarious, and potential users who have never heard of The Smurfs can always click the link.

I've never seen Smurfs or whatever its name is, but after exactly one click I could see a poster for the normal show. The current is fine — a comparison pic of posters would be good, but hard to make out and possibly a partial duplicate.

That was the amazing part. Things just keep going.

It is impossible to say "this is different than before" without a before-and-after comparison?

edited 4th Jun '12 1:56:06 AM by rodneyAnonymous

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.

Anyway, even if you are not familiar with the Smurfs, the "Smurfs Hardcore" line itself is pretty indicative of the change...

Any series could have that argument made for it. If we applied it consistently, we wouldn't treat familiarity with a series as irrelevant to page images in the first place.

Not necessarily. If there were some sort of fantasy-themed porn series (don't laugh, there's already lots of them on the Internet) that used the word "hardcore" for one of its newer installments, it doesn't imply grimdark.

If we want to stick with the Smurfs one, we should at least add a "before" part. (Also, are we sure we have permission for the "after" part? I don't see any link to the context of it.)

EDITED IN: And for an example of what I was talking about with regards to the Toy Story option...

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Of course, we have all kinds of options, for both "before" and "after," for that series.

edited 4th Jun '12 5:46:46 AM by HiddenFacedMatt

"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart

I'd say that expecting familiarity with a series is a problem when it would take more than one click and one glance — when you'd have to search the trope page, watch part of it, read something, know a quote... When the poster is obvious, clear, etc., I don't think it's too much to hope that a reader will be able to make the link by following an obvious pothole.

A good thing about the current image alone is the "Butterfield Studios" bit at the bottom. The childish font and company name help show that Smurfs was not originally/is not always like this.

I haven't got anything against a before image, I just think that it may not be necessary in this case and having a smaller, simpler image is preferable.

Also, if Hardcore!Smurfs is a real series, then the image is fine, as is all promo/cover art. If it's 'shopped, we'll need to source it and see about stuff.

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I'd like the Toy Story suggestion more if the images were more similar in size and visual layout, though it's good how there are the same characters. At the moment, it's also not really clear that they're different films rather than screencaps from the beginning and middle of one film.

edited 4th Jun '12 5:54:01 AM by Telcontar

That was the amazing part. Things just keep going.

The "similarity of image size" concern is easy to get around; again, there are a lot of options, even within using Toy Story as an example.

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The "not from same installment" part is a bit harder to get around, *

(though that itself raises the question as to whether or not Mood Whiplash in the darker/edgier direction within the same installment could also count as this trope if significant enough)

but I don't think you can show the "different installment" part except with a significant enough Art Shift.

As for the "familiarity with the series" bit, perhaps a mod could clarify better what exactly our standards are with regards to that?

edited 4th Jun '12 8:27:28 AM by HiddenFacedMatt

"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart

The existing image is fine, honestly. The Smurfs are much, much more widely known than most media and it's plainly obvious that it doesn't look like that, so a comparison image is unneeded.

Although I'm reminded of that one UNICEF ad◊...

edited 4th Jun '12 8:26:20 AM by ShadowHog

Moon◊

Even within using the Smurfs, that seems like a more fitting option, partly because it's a serious example rather than a parodical one, and partly because the grimdark is used to make a point rather than just for the sake of grimdark, being more fitting to Tropes Are Not Bad and all that. If we have a "before" screenshot with a children's cartoon channel logo on it (preferably something like "Treehouse" to make the lightheartedness clear) then keeping the Unicef logo on the "after" part will make clear that it's not the same "installment" so to speak.

I still think a "before" image should be included either way. If we start carving out exceptions for "series well known enough," that raises the question as to what criteria this is based on, and where we draw the line.

"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart

For the record, I'm not at all opposed to "before —> after" pics to make comparisons, as we can't assume reader familiarity with the series in question. In this particular case, I think the current pic works well enough on its own.

edited 4th Jun '12 10:36:38 AM by Willbyr

Is there a picture of a Smurf giving a flower, or something just as innocent, to Smurfette? If so, that would make a great comparison picture.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

I think that would make it worse, not better.

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.