I for one will fight on the side of the Bookisms

They have the added disadvantage of forcing the reader to figure out just what the frell "asseverated" means.

Fear is a superpower.

"papal ejaculations"

Heh.

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.

Yes, that- I hate having to stop reading a book to grab a dictionary.

Especially when you figure out that it's just an overly fancy way of saying "said."

Fear is a superpower.

When ever I read words that aren't said they jar me out of the experience, and often cause me to resist the urge to hurl the text into the nearest wall. This urge becomes harder to resist and more vile the more common they are in the work.

I would not be exaggerating if I said they cause me deep feelings of anger and frustration especially when the rest of the book is good.

Rarely active, try DA/Tumblr Avatar by pippanaffie.deviantart.com

I'm the opposite - when I'm reading a work, so long as the "not-said" word isn't ridiculous (This post pretty much sums up my views - also action tags work for me) then I have no problem with it.

However I get annoyed pretty fast when I see a page of dialogue and all I get is "John said" "Mary said". The wall of said is annoying.

Seriously? You must throw a lot of good books away... (the first that comes to mind is Pride And Prejudice)

"You've got your transmission and your live wire, but your circuit's dead." - Media

Why would you want to read a book that's nothing but "said said said said said" over and over again?

Fear is a superpower.

XD

But seriously, the last time I read a book where the only dialogue tag was "said" and actually enjoyed it was back when I was learning how to read. I just think that the "said bookisms" frenzy is a bit much sometimes - I mean, I completely understand it if we have nothing but "replied", "asked", "postulated", "ejaculated" and all that silly stuff. However, apart from that it can get pretty silly... especially when coupled with the idea that authors shouldn't use so many words that end in -ly. Loni Jay gave a pretty good example on how sometimes you just need other words apart from "said" and I stand by her example.

Also, there are a lot of good authors out there (e.g. Jane Austen) who have used other words - but they used them correctly. And that's the key - learn how to use the words properly.

edited 30th May '12 7:00:15 PM by StolenByFaeries

"You've got your transmission and your live wire, but your circuit's dead." - Media

I'm fine with said being broken up by actions.

"blahblahblah," X does something.

Or occasion non-said words, asked and whispered*

, but I don't like seeing words like utter, ejaculated, shouted. Especially any shout or scream related word after a sentence that has ! in it. At that point they're condescending to the reader.

Rarely active, try DA/Tumblr Avatar by pippanaffie.deviantart.com

I tend not to mind the "shout" after ! - but then I come from a |loud" family so we use a lot of ! without necessarily breaking into shouting territory.

"You've got your transmission and your live wire, but your circuit's dead." - Media

I'm more of the type that prefers the adjective after said instead of in place of it, or that uses a pure love of words, simile, metaphor to get the point across without being to purple.

He said as his voice skipped like an old record

I have a friend like that who just says he's loud, I say he's just used to shouting.

edited 30th May '12 8:15:07 PM by Vyctorian

Rarely active, try DA/Tumblr Avatar by pippanaffie.deviantart.com

Hmmm... could be - but then I'd need a whole new word for shouting if the usual vocal level is shouting.

Also, ! can be used to show that a person is excited without necessarily shouting.

You see, one of the people who critiqued my work hated adjectives (didn't ignore the advice - promptly cut back). Everyone has different preferences when it comes to writing - I think that the key is moderation. Not "all said" and not "all bookisms" (at least none of the stupid ones) - if someone hates you for using said, or for using the bookisms then so be it. If it really was a universal sign of poor writing then there would be a number of good books considered trash.

edited 30th May '12 8:27:58 PM by StolenByFaeries

"You've got your transmission and your live wire, but your circuit's dead." - Media

Hated adjectives? Do you mean adverbs? I guess too many adjectives could be a bad thing too, but in my opinion you'd have to go way farther with adjectives then adverbs for the reading to suffer to the same degree.

On a related note, I don't think adverbs are such a horrendous thing. Too many are definitely bad, but a few in the right place aren't a hideous sin in my books.

Fear is a superpower.

Sorry, yeah that's what I meant. >_< Sorry - doing maths homework. :P

But yeah, they do need to be in the right place - the same goes for the bookisms.

"You've got your transmission and your live wire, but your circuit's dead." - Media

"Especially any shout or scream related word after a sentence that has ! in it. At that point they're condescending to the reader."

I disagree. I don't think it's condescending, any more than "asked" after a question mark. As soon as an exclamation point appears, the character is no longer saying, they are shouting. (Most of the time, anyway. Sometimes an exclamation point can be used without it being shouting.) I see "shouted" and "asked" as being completely equivalent to "said," but for different punctuation.

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.

It's pretty obvious after a ! that the things is being said with an emphasis, I didn't mean shouted alone, variants of screaming or excitement work as well. Plus the work should have made it clear enough already whether they were angry enough to shout for not through there actions, and expression.

He clutched his fists so tight he could feel the nails digging into the skin.

She had a wide smile across her face.

Rarely active, try DA/Tumblr Avatar by pippanaffie.deviantart.com

So wait, are you saying you'd find

"Help me!" he said.

less jarring than

"Help me!" he shouted.?

Or would it depend on the context, and if so what features of the context?

edited 31st May '12 4:25:53 AM by Kesteven

gloamingbrood.tumblr.com MSPA: The Superpower Lottery

^ Well look at it this way. A ! can denote excitement, anger, yelling, shouting, generally being loud/a Large Ham, bewilderment and other things. Without either context or dialogue tags a simple ! does not convey much of anything on its own.

Does anybody really quantify sentences like "Wow! That was amazing!" as shouting without the dialogue tags or excessive context?

I think if you put any tag after an exclamation mark, it shouldn't be 'said' — it contradicts the tone and emotion of it. Just like you shouldn't, in my opinion, put 'said' after a question mark.

A brighter future for a darker age.

What tag would you put after an enthusiastic ejaculation that falls short of shouting, then? Because you could put 'exclaimed', but that's definitely redundant, even more than 'shouted'.

I think redundancy isn't necessarily bad, though. In a way 'said' is redundant given the speech marks, but it's a feature of the language that we need to say what the speaker is doing to identify them, so I reckon that as long as it doesn't actively distract the reader any accurate verb is fine.

edited 31st May '12 4:48:16 AM by Kesteven

gloamingbrood.tumblr.com MSPA: The Superpower Lottery

There's the point. Right there.

A brighter future for a darker age.

"What tag would you put after an enthusiastic ejaculation that falls short of shouting, then?"

'Said excitedly' maybe? Ends up being somewhat redundant, but it does make it clear the person isn't shouting it.

Also, "enthusiastic ejaculation." Heh.

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.

Since when does the exclaimation point exclusively mean volume? If I wanted to write someone doing a tiny fist pump, it would be a "Nice!" even if it was at talking level.

All Heroes die. Some just more than others. http://dimanagul.wordpress.com

If you're doing Tom Swiftyisms that's far, far worse than Said Bookisms could ever be in terms of distraction.

Nous restons ici.

Yeah, that's true. Well, I guess that just further cements "shouted" as an entirely acceptable verb, to differentiate between something being said loudly, and something being said at a normal volume but with more emphasis.

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.