Is Philosophy a dead Idea?

Speaking from my point of view it certainly seems like Philosophers have lost all meaning, trying to understand human nature is the job of Sociology and psychology, explaining the natural world is the job of scientists.

Philosophers seem to be left with only one thing that matters in my opinion, is trying to understand what is good and what is bad, and that just falls under the purview of Ethics (admittedly a branch of Philosophy to some) and Religion. The other questions like what god is, and how he exists falls into theology more than philosophy.

Furthermore to those who may say that science started in Philosophy, yes this is true Science is "Natural Philosophy" but Science never seems to be as speculative as Philosophy since the age of enlightenment, once we found 'proof' for theories it's never questioned, only by the insane.

What do you guys think? Is the role of a Philosopher still respected?

"You'd never do something as irrational as dying."

Philosophy is alive and well.

I often happen to encounter analytic philosophers at conferences and so on, and there are more than a few scientific journals that publish articles of both mathematical logicians and logic-heavy philosophers. In effect, the distinction between these groups is very immaterial: many people are interested in both areas, and more than a few of my direct colleagues have a philosophical formation. Come to think of it, quite a few of the top researchers in my area started as philosophers, and still retain their philosophical interests.

The kind of philosophers I generally come in contact with tend to be mostly interested in philosophy of language and in the study of the concept of meaning; but recently, I've also met quite a few who instead work on social choice theory and on the problem of the optimal way of aggregating individual preferences into social preference — basically, a formal approach to political science, more or less.

Oh, and I know one person who is into medieval philosophy and the relationships between medieval logic and modern logic — a fascinating topic, and one that I'd like to know better myself.

edited 24th Apr '12 8:25:56 AM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

Philosophers deserve respect in my opinion. They're scientists like every other field. Philosophy includes the study of logic and the logical study of things that aren't part of other sciences, so it definitely deserves a place in our society. The study of science is also a field of philosophy.

I would never allow theology to claim ethics as their territory. The existence of supernatural entities is, as far as I can tell, something that has to be assumed for theology to be a valid field, and until there is a proper reason to assume the supernatural, theology is not a field that I would take seriously except as a curiosity. To me, the only interesting fields of theology are those that could also be classified as studies of sociology and psychology.

Ethics is a very important field of philosophy, and philosophy is the science to which I would definitely grant the whole field of ethics. Of course, the study of ethics has long ago reached a stage where information from other fields is necessary, so it's a very connected field, especially with sociology, psychology and to a lesser extent economics.

The field of theology, as I said, more or less assumes that supernatural things exist (or if you don't want to accept that term, let's say that they assume some kind of divinity.) The question of whether or not such a divine force can be assumed is part of philosophy. In fact, philosophy lays the foundation for every other field, and it also does that for theology by providing the frameworks that allow the study of the divine for those who are willing to accept philosophies that build such a framework.

Philosophy remains in my book the most important thing that can be taught in a university, and some basics of it is necessary for absolutely every field, especially the "hard" sciences (which need certain philosophical frameworks - most notably logic - to work at all.)

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.

Philosophy is not dead, but I would say it has been buried. We have a staggering amount of information and thinking going on around us, unprecedented in human history, and outside of a few scientific disciplines (notably the cognitive sciences) no one is talking to philosophers about how we can best organize it.

That, plus too much published philosophy nowadays is a) mental masturbation, b) ad hoc justification for a political or ideological agenda, or c) both. It can be tough separating the wheat from the chaff.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

Conversely, I think that you cannot really know philosophy unless you have a solid formation in a number of different fields.

The ancient Pythagoreans used to refuse teaching any philosophy until one did not have a thorough grounding in mathematics, geometry, music and astronomy (and I don't remember if in some other disciplines too). I kind of see their point: studying knowledge, beauty, truth, justice and so on on a general level is a worthwhile occupation, but not one that is likely to lead anywhere interesting unless one has already encountered and studied specific examples of these concepts.

edited 24th Apr '12 8:32:13 AM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

I agree, I suppose I might have been playing the devil's advocate to myself in the intro.

I believe that yes, Philosophy and Philosophers should be respected, but whether they are getting that respect is what I'm wondering, the only compulsory thing there is that can be directly linked to Philosophy is Religious Education (within a degree or so), and speaking from my opinion again, Religious Education is a bit of a rubbish subject and doesn't quite give you as much interest as studying Ethics and Philosophy.

I completely agree with ethics not being in the realm of Theology, just look at Utilitarianism if you think the two can't exist with each other.

"You'd never do something as irrational as dying."

The distinction between philosophy and theology is rather fuzzy anyway. Are Plato's writings philosophy or theology, for example? And what of those of Averroes, or Aquinas, or Hegel?

But it is certainly true that philosophy advances some systems of ethics which do not presuppose the existence of a deity.

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

"Philosophy is the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence, especially when considered as an academic discipline."

Discussing philosophy in even a casual manner demands foundation definitions. Inquiries into knowledge, reality, and existence - for instance - require at least cursory understanding of epistemology, metaphysics (or ontology), logic, ethics. I personally believe that a grasp of aesthetics is required as well, but that all depends on what is being asked.

The application of various philosophical branches or schools of thought becomes sociology and psychology. Both of these "human sciences" are constantly reinforced, criticized, and/or changed by past and concurrent philosophical trends. Honestly, I don't think people realize just how indebted they are to philosophy which is sadly ironic given how much derision it (has always) receives. Closing with the OP, science remains inherently philosophical with regards toward "speculation" (e.g., quantum physics, philosophy of physics).

To keep from ranting: no, philosophy isn't dead. Also, philosophy isn't an idea.

Yeah, it kind of does go both ways: without philosophy, there is no theoretical basis for any field; and without other fields, philosophy will never emerge into practical things.

Perhaps philosophy is best viewed as a mix of method and knowledge, much like "science" is understood both as a method and as a collection of information. From that perspective, they're inseparable friends who can't achieve very much alone but who together can create wonders.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.

If we are to take this definition as face value, then theology is a subset of philosophy. Such questions as "Does a deity exist? What is its nature? What is the relationship between it and the universe, or between it and humankind?" are of clear importance for the understanding of the fundamental nature of reality.

Of course, if the answer to the first question is "no" then this is a fairly uninteresting branch of philosophy

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

In b4 Aon crashing in with Buddhism's stance on deities.

"Atheism is the religion whose followers are easiest to troll"

There is such a thing as Buddhology, in any case — the formal, academic study of the concept of Buddhahood. And similarly to what I said for theology, if there is such a thing as Buddhahood this tells us something really fundamental about the nature of reality.

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

Is the term "Buddhology" really akin to "theology", or would the closer counterpart be "Christology"? Etymologically "theo-" in "theology" would make it count, but I wonder if "theology" isn't considered a more general term. I am curious what you think.

"Atheism is the religion whose followers are easiest to troll"

The very question could be considered Philosophy, so no.

edited 24th Apr '12 10:22:36 AM by Natasel

It's more often compared to Christology it seems. Though some use it as a synonym for Buddhist studies in general. As for gods in Buddhism.

Sufficiently advanced aliens are what we call gods.

So.

Stuff.

That still leaves the exact nature of the two we defined and our cosmology rules but eh.

I myself am more involved in general Buddhist studies and Buddhist philosophy. Studying the concept of Buddhahood and what it means is important but to focus on it heavily isn't good. It's like focusing on the concept of Nibbana heavily. Yeah I can study and learn but focusing. Eh. I'll get there. Eventually. I'm nowhere near it so I gotta work from lower ground.

I also tend to use Buddhologist as a synonym for Buddhist studies because Junior Buddhologist sounds nice.

edited 24th Apr '12 10:48:40 AM by Aondeug

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

Best way of putting it, honestly.

The point of Philosophy is knowing what the point of things are.

edited 24th Apr '12 10:49:13 AM by Tangent128

Do you highlight everything looking for secret messages?

Regarding the religion thing; far as I'm concerned you can't discuss religion without eventually discussing ethics. At least if you're going to discuss it competently at all. In this manner, well, religion involves a lot of philosophy. there's probably a lot of people we'd call philosopher's in this day that were also religious figures.

Anyway. No, philosophy is not dead. It's generally just regarded as not having a direct impact on life by people who aren't incredibly academic. More useless even than art! Which is depressing. Also a lot of people like to just skim the subject so they can sound smarter than they are to their friends. Which just kind of increases the idea that it's useless stuff for brainiacs.

I wouldn't say that psychology and the like are replacing philosophy though. The field of psychology seems to be more about mental illnesses and the mechanics of how people work.

As stated earlier, cognitive theories can get very philosophical very quickly if you're not careful. Actually, visual perception has its moments, as well... Hmmmm.

Who says Sociology has to hog the pie? After all, that's one social science most people think of as mainly philosophical in nature... Mainly people who haven't had to try to juggle the stats.

edited 24th Apr '12 8:40:30 PM by Euodiachloris

It is sad. I'm sure we could go have a big fight about that other part. I suppose that it has to do with the job degree thing. People don't know what jobs you can do with the degree.

Fight smart, not fair.

What, definite no. Philosophy is the ultimate category of study. Everything traces to it. There's no way it's dead.

There's a very important branch of philosophy called metaphysics. It deals with what is, what its nature is, etc. All disciplines of study have some kind of foundation. This philosophy is for the underlying belief that sets the foundation.

I think the reason philosophers are being underappreciated is because people are too busy trying to make money for a living, instead of appreciating knowledge for what it is. I find this "real world" opposition quite saddening.

Now using Trivialis handle.

haha, No. No it's not, also psychology and sociology are just words for forms of philosophy in my mind.

Rarely active, try DA/Tumblr Avatar by pippanaffie.deviantart.com

Everything is philosophy, including thing called "debating" Wondering whether philosophy is dead is philosophy. Wonder about ethics is philosophy.

SO yeah, I wouldn't say its dead, I would say that people don't release what is philosophy and just think its "That weird thing where you ponder about useless things like what is true nature of world or something"

Or there's the other view. "The one that does silly essay titles."

To be honest, you can find silly essay titles in every subject.

There is actually one branch of philosophy, called Metaphilosophy, whole purpose is to study the nature of philosophy.

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

I suppose it would be better if we implemented the logic class requirement. Then we can at least say you need it for teaching logic.

Fight smart, not fair.