Content Policy Change

I was under the impression that flagging would replace cutlisting. Cutlisting is very primitive and ignores a lot of channels.

With the council about now, I'm guessing cutlisting will be obsolete.

I'd also like to apologize for the excessive cutlisting. I thought cutlisting recommendations were open again (why isn't there an on and off switch for that thing?)

@Septimus I understand. I was actually responding to another unrelated post and just wasn't sure if you understood that.

If you are assuming we are suddenly infallible, perish the thought. We are people.

As for Fast Eddie, he listens to feedback. That does not mean he is swayed by it.

We are experiencing a huge change. How do you expect mistakes not to happen, especially when people put things on indices they really don't belong or actively misinform the person who has the power to cut pages?

edited 17th Apr '12 1:10:26 PM by lu127

@jkbeta Oh really? That, I was not aware of. Well, we really do need to start changing policy then.

Most of what Eddie did was done without consulting us beyond a quick note on the situation that was occurring. That said, we support him fully and he does listen to us when we have objections to his policies.

The fact is that, thanks to reasoned arguments, we're now dealing with this situation in a way that will hopefully be acceptable to most people — except the ones who wanted the pedoshit around. Those we don't care about particularly.

Further overreactions and hyperbolic statements don't help anyone's cause and in fact make us more likely to get frustrated and deal harshly with repeat offenders.

@lu

Most of the problems that this has caused, and all of the mistakes, could have been solved with a open thread discussion with the right people. Maybe other mistakes would have been caused or other problems would have surfaced, but we will never know since that never had the chance to happen.

I honestly don't know what say to the statement that their are no check on FE's power.

@whale

Words are words. I can't myself, and won't attempt to, speak for what the Mods feel or think, but it seems to me that if someone truly regretted a mistake actions would have been taken to correct it.

edited 17th Apr '12 1:14:06 PM by LMage

@LMage: In case you didn't notice, we are now having a productive conversation about it, and we have taken corrective action. Eddie could turn off the wiki tomorrow and we'd have no recourse but to go cry in our soup. C'est la vie.

edited 17th Apr '12 1:14:51 PM by Fighteer

If I want to bring a questionable trope page to the mods' attention, how would I go about doing that? Or are we waiting for the committee to be functioning for tropes as well?

You're moving the goalposts there, L Mage.

EDIT: If you open the Tools menu on a wiki page, you'll see something that says: "This article needs some moderator assistance with: "

Enter your message in the text box, and then hit "send report."

edited 17th Apr '12 1:15:24 PM by ccoa

@Butterfinger: Use the page flagging tool, in the Tools menu. I think that's how it's working now, anyway.

edited 17th Apr '12 1:14:10 PM by Fighteer

Pretty sure only Eddie can edit the "Family Friendly" page.

I don't think we've handled this situation ideally, no. But we've done our best to be fair and reasonable and we are not trying to trick anybody or deceive anyone, and I don't think we've given anyone reason to believe we're malicious, which we aren't.

I don't think I made any secret of the fact that I reacted with alarm when I heard Lolita got cut, either, though having heard Eddie's reasoning for doing so I can understand why he did it.

I think ccoa's guidelines are good ones.

And I don't know why anyone would be worried about Ethan Frome. I was forced to read it in high school, and having sex would have severely damaged the protagonist's pathetic, boring, tragic loser cred.

The discussion is right here. Fast Eddie himself opened this discussion to the public.

Correcting the mistakes? We have put the panel together, and are now waiting for them to be given their tools. We cannot restore pages. That is beyond our powers.

I don't want to speak for anyone else but frankly I am getting sick of the all the slippery slopes that people are constructing. Its frustrating that most arguments are basically, "if you cut page X then you have to cut pages A, B and C."

Edit:

I'm also getting sick of people trying to split the hair pretty thinly and trying to argue semantics.

edited 17th Apr '12 1:21:14 PM by whaleofyournightmare

Going to agree with lu here. Eddie's OP was a wonderfully thought-out argument for the policy change, and the installation of the 5P panel as a "court of pedo&porn watch" so that we can stop randomly cutting things and get back the good ones was also a good idea.

Seconding whale. Slippery Slope is a fallacy. Stop it.

I've been one of those who panicked, but now that the policy and plans have been well-communicated to us, and the peeps in charge are clear that unobjectionable works aren't getting cut/will probably be restored, I'm content with the direction it's going.

EDIT: And I want to thank the mods and Fast Eddie for their patience and communication in all this.

edited 17th Apr '12 1:24:40 PM by ArcadesSabboth

@whaleofyournightmare Hey, people are already trying to figure out how we will expand this purge, so yeah, I think the Slippery Slope worry is valid as we don't know where we are going to end this. Also, we argue semantics because so much of this is subjective

As a side question, is "plot" our qualifier for proving something isn't porn? I vaguely remember a page for a manga that had no plot as such, but was described as "porn with characterization"—the characters had distinct personalities and interactions, and clearly had lives beyond sex, but they were never actually seen outside the bedroom.

edited 17th Apr '12 1:24:56 PM by feotakahari

@Whale I've been saying this for awhile. Nitpicking and cluttering threads up with nonsense like that really hurts discussion.

edited 17th Apr '12 1:25:36 PM by Akagikiba

To me that's pretty much the same thing. Window dressing Porn Without Plot by giving it the trappings of a plot doesn't change the fact that it's porn, first and foremost.

"people are already trying to figure out" — who are these "people" and what evidence do you have for your statement?

edited 17th Apr '12 1:25:35 PM by Fighteer

Porn with Plot is a case-by-case basis. What you described, however, doesn't sound to me like it would pass.

They also don't do anything for the credibility of the people making the "arguments." And that's going to affect how the panel looks at the arguments presented once the thread is up and running.

edited 17th Apr '12 1:25:40 PM by Martello

Rogue Leader: at least one of those threads were locked by FE for basically being strawman arguments.

edited 17th Apr '12 1:26:11 PM by TheOneWhoTropes

@1918 Rogue Leader: Editors have been plotting how to expand the purge. The mods and panel have not.

EDIT: And as The One Who Tropes pointed out, Fast Eddie summarily locked the thread about it. He doesn't seem sympathetic to the idea.

edited 17th Apr '12 1:27:13 PM by ArcadesSabboth