Batman General Discussion

I'm saying that they should have met much earlier. Like the the version where young Clark did offer to play with young Bruce and a lifelong friendship was formed. Teenage Bruce needed some serious psychological help!

Bruce was traveling the world training to be the Batman while Clark was being a farmboy in Kansas.

Gotham is too far away from Kansas for Superman to meet when they were teenagers.

Batman is just really depressing. Is there any version that isn't a rich kid with issues? Silver age?

No one who isn't a rich kid with issues will ever dress like a bat to go jump on rooftops throwing high tech equipment at clowns. If you don't like that you always can try another comicbook.

edited 3rd Dec '16 6:30:55 PM by NapoleonDeCheese

Yes, Silver Age Batman is much more upbeat and optimistic than modern Batman, though even he had his downbeat, tragic moments.

And actually, there's at least one old story where a teenaged Clark Kent met a teenaged Bruce Wayne; they met when the Smallville High baseball team played the Gotham High team, Clark was the equipment manager for his team, and I can't recall what Bruce did for his. There, of course, was some problem they needed to join forces to solve. It's obviously no longer in continuity, but it does exist.

In Detective Comics, Stephanie is definitely no longer on team Bat and is striking out on her own, vowing to be a thorn in Bruce's side until he turns himself in to the authorities alongside everyone. Bruce decides to let her be a nuisance until she's past grieving for Tim. Speaking of Tim, we see him jury-rig a device that lets him break out of his cell, but he stops dead in his tracks when he finds a fellow prisoner made out of blue electrical energy. Mr. Oz, his captor, tells him he'll understand everything very soon

What, are you fucking kidding me? What the hell does that mean? How fucking immature & Goddamn idiotic.

I gotta read this issue though I'm surprised with how Bats is handling the situation kinda.

Bruce is giving her the benefit of the doubt because She was bluffing about the threat she made to out the team's identities if he didn't turn himself in but I agree that this is completely left-field and obnoxiously out-of-character for her. It also creates unnecessary drama between her and Tim for whenever he does eventually get back to them because she's trying to tear down everything he helped build for Bruce

edited 28th Dec '16 3:34:03 AM by Zarius

It's not out-of-character or out of left field at all, given what she's been going through recently. She's still upset about Tim and was emotionally manipulated by the First Victim on top of that, and was expressing doubts about the vigilante life even before the Victim Syndicate came into the picture.

Anyway, I loved this issue. A great, bittersweet, and surprisingly hopeful end to a good arc.

edited 28th Dec '16 1:56:57 PM by caivu

wow what they did to steph sounds awful, guess I'm dropping both main bat books. Hopefully issue 1000 brings some changes to tec,

I don't think it's awful at all. She's not a villain now, not even close. She just isn't on board with what Batman and co. are doing.

And I don't think she's leaving the book, either. She's just not going to be part of the team for a while.

edited 28th Dec '16 2:19:08 PM by caivu

I do think it's awful. you might like it, but I definately don't and I don't want to read this. I just need to look out for what oz is doing in action.

I like every other bat book but the main 2.

Okay then, why don't you like it?

because I don't like Steph acting like that. Yeah she has gone through a lot of shit, and I was defending her up till now, but I can't anymore.

Between this and Catwoman, I hope there isn't a pattern of trying to make women related to the Batfamily into 'enemy' figures (while, ironically, trying hard as hell to sell us on Relatable Heroine Harley Quinn of all things).

to say nothing of how this repeats the annoying patten of making villains out of people who disagree with the hero over something. First it was Jason, then Cass, now Steph.

The disagreement is stupid in the first place. I am tired of characters constantly bitching "do we need a Batman" or "we'd be better off without him." Cause newsflash no they wouldn't, Gotham would be worse. It be stupid to stop now cause who's gonna handle the likes of The Penguin, Mad Hatter, Two-Face, Man-Bat or Scarecrow? The police? That's beyond laughable, that's a joke not even the Joker will find funny. Even if Batman did create these villains it doesn't change the fact that they now exist & Bats disappearing won't suddenly have them retiring too. The police are a bunch of pussy's compared to supervillains & the mobsters as well which was the reason Bruce became Batman in the first place.

Even then Bats is getting better, he's improving, he's making his operation better for everyone involved. Steph is wrong cause she's clearly let her grief take her over clouding her judgement & is inadvertently going against the wishes of the man she's fighting for. She's fucking up Tim's plans so she better get it thought her head soon that what's she's doing is just counter-productive for everyone involved.

edited 28th Dec '16 4:50:01 PM by slimcoder

yeah like I said I'm probably dropping it, unless I see he handles Cass and her arc well. And doesnt turn clayface evil again

If the story presented Steph's position as completely right, you'd have a point. But it doesn't. She's upset and not thinking clearly, so why is it a problem that she's taking a wrong stance?

@windleopard Steph's not a villain even now, so that's irrelevant.

edited 28th Dec '16 5:31:44 PM by caivu

All-Star was pretty bonkers...so the dirt Harvey had on Alfred was Alfred had ordered a hit on The Joker, and Harvey's "cure" ended up being something that Sustained his and the Two-Face's ongoing struggle for complete dominance of their body on a more permanent basis

I'd say the people outraged about the story probably didn't actually read it, because Steph isn't presented as completely right. She makes some points but then the other characters do as well. Batwing in particular makes the point of saying Steph's argument is full of shit because things in Gotham were already bad way before the Batfamily was ever a thing. He gives an anecdote about being a kid and hearing about an unarmed black teen who was shot by the cops for no reason and talks about how injustices like that were what inspired him to be a hero.

thats why i dislike it she is making the dumbest points for the dumbest reasons.

But she's upset, and isn't thinking clearly, and has been manipulated. She actually does kind of have a point, but her larger ideas are naive, and the story acknowledges that. She's not dumb, she's confused and desperate.

edited 29th Dec '16 3:17:45 PM by caivu

I think the frustrating thing about this is, the nebulous continuity makes it feel like it's basically the same Stephanie who already should know better still making the same naive mistakes she'd make during Dixon's Robin or War Games. Even if the reboot(s) point otherwise, Batman's continuity is such a mess now it's hard to get an exact reading of how each character should 'sound' and act at this point.

Stephanie essentially had her origin told in Batman Eternal so it's unlikely any of the stuff with War Games or her becoming Robin ever happened.