What is the appeal of Rationalist fics?

This may be illogical but what is the appeal of these kinds of fics?

I think it's got a lot to do with the mindset of the viewers. The rationalist fics are written around fantastical franchises, which ask the fans to accept explanations and magic "on faith". Since we live in a world where phenomenon have rational explanations, no doubt some people would like to introduce rational explanations to their favorite fandoms (even if the premise requires accepting some irrational starting point, IE magic).

Magic is only probably irrational on our plane of reality. Since there arguably are many of those, there are probably worlds where our science would be the subject of their fantasy books. Why waste time building rockets to the moon when one could ride on one's dragon to the surface of that moon to destroy a threat to your planet?

Remember Clarke's Third Law of Prediction - Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Whatever Arthur C.Clarke got up to in the bedroom with his suspiciously youthful paramours aside, he was a really brilliant scientist and not just your average sci-fi author.

"Since there are arguably many of those"

Demonstrate that this is so, that these "planes" can and do support recognizably human life, and that it is possible to travel between them. (If the latter is not true, then it doesn't matter whether the first two are true or not.)

I'll wait right here while you do that.

Meanwhile, this is what I understand as being the appeal of "rationalist" fiction, summed up by one of the characters in my Negima fanfic.

You do the opposite, mate. Meanwhile I will buy the popcorn and marshmallows. You cannot be sure that you are right and I am wrong, nor can I be sure that I am right and you are wrong. Reason being neither you or I are gods.

One thing I do know, pretty much for a fact as it happens, is that there are too many worlds out there in the reality that we can see using the tools science currently gives us for us to be the only intelligent life in this universe. Not even the worst Mob bookkeeper in Vegas, Reno or Atlantic City would give you odds on that not being true.

You can't prove a negative.

The question of "the existence of life on other planets" has nothing to do with the question of "the existence of other planes of existence." They aren't the same thing. You are trying to steer this discussion away from its topic. Cut it out.

edited 10th Apr '12 7:14:29 PM by Darkenning

I thought the topic of this discussion was the appeal of Rationalist fics!

Anyway, I personally like Rationalist fics because I like science and experiments and to have someone applying their boundless curiosity to a fantasy setting is extremely refreshing. Too often do you see characters who do some feat of magic and then don't even think about it twice.

When you get a Rationalist story, the point of view goes, "Whoa, what? How did that work? How did I make that happen? and How can I exploit this for the sake of SCIENCE?" I'm probably missing a point somewhere along the line, but that's what I like about 'em anyway.

edited 10th Apr '12 7:19:18 PM by Sessalisk

Your hypothesis is untestable, and therefore unuseful. Nothing can be built from it and nothing can done with it that will advance knowledge. It is thus rejected.

Welcome to rationalist territory.

Quoting Clark won't get you far, describing these, but quoting Agatha Heterodyne might: Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science.

I don't think it's so much the appear of Rationalist works as a whole, but rather the appeal of particular works that happen to be rational.

HP Mo R is good because it's funny, exciting, and suspenseful. Luminosity is good because it's what Twilight should have been, apart from a few pacing issues.

What are the pacing issues of Luminosity?

Luminosity has very little to do with Twilight at all, to be honest.

It all comes down to a talented author taking an inventive approach to the existing material. Rationalism has relatively little to do with it, really; since it's the path-lass-taken from the outset, it just happens to have more 'new-and-unusual' charm than other competing approaches.

What are the pacing issues of Luminosity?

Well there's barely any conflict between the time Bella becomes a vampire and the Volturri attack La Push. And it also has a long drawn out ending.

edited 13th Apr '12 10:26:26 PM by storyyeller

I realize this is probably an overly pessimistic viewpoint, but whenever I read one of these fics, I just get the feeling of the author saying "look how smart I am".

This is just my opinion, but I imagine the appeal is that characters do things that are intelligent and make sense. There are a number of times where I'm reading a story and I marvel at the stupidity of a character, and other times when I'm amazed they don't do this incredibly obvious easy solution (like the Eagle thing in Lot R even though I know that's been explained).

Rationalist versions of normal works boil down to:

Author: They would do this, because that. What do you mean it's not consistent? Accept it on faith, please.
Fic-writer: No. And here's scientific reasons embedded in a fic why you're wrong.

The personal appeal is the Deconstruction Fic aspect of teasing apart a fantasy world. Taming a lawless land, laughing at the old farts in togas... there's elements of that too. But the biggest reason is the same thing that drives me towards science in this mad world - I want to make sense of it.

edited 16th Apr '12 2:44:00 PM by AckSed

I think one of the key aspects of Rationalist fics is the break of tropes to *improve* the story or explore new potential aspects of the original setting.

A Rationalist fic doesn't need to be a desconstruction, Luminosity for example is a reconstruction fic.

edited 16th Apr '12 3:12:37 PM by Bluelantern2814

Reconstruction is good as well.

The views and opinions of myself do not reflect my own personal beliefs, and I do not retain responsibility for anything said by me. Now that I got my ass covered...

<<<WARNING: SUBJECTIVE CONTENT>>>

When you're writing a Fan Fic, by the very nature of it being someone else's creative domain, you're indulging in some sort of wish fulfillment or emotional vent. Even in the most vanilla of fics, you want to get your hands on someone else's clay, reinterpret it, and incorporate an element into the world that wasn't there before for your own benefit.

With Rational!Fics, you've got a world untouched by scientific method by which your author proxy has free domain and the privilege of being the main character rolled into one. So, since they are capable of studying and reproducing the physics of the world, you can allow the awesome feats the narrative would call for without having to deal with The Chosen One waiver and worthiness, but still look just as impressive. That particular line of logic feeds the five year old in us who want to have everything their way, the teenager with attention needs and illusions of grandeur, and the young adult who has everything figured out already. You have the emotional breeding ground for writing fan fic established, and it draws in the same sort of crowd, so the feedback loop continues, and you have popular fic.

edited 17th Apr '12 9:08:35 PM by moocow1452

Short answer? It lets people feel smart whilst reading fanfiction.

Yes. If I stop now and try not to explain anything, I can probably get off looking a lot smarter than I actually am.

I've only really read Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality but part of what I find appealing is that it addresses what I feel are some of the weaknesses of Rowling's world building.

"Rationalist" started out as thought-porn for the website Less Wrong, basically their way of turning a character into a Mary Sue because that character magically picked up their system of beliefs. It's spread, but that's still the core- a character is made "better" by becoming a rationalist. It's a bit like if a Harry Potter fanfic was focused on how Christian he was.

Really the only reason they're popular is that they strike a chord with nerds such as ourselves. Most of us are atheists (thank God ), most of us are smart. The idea of a character picking up those traits and then becoming awesome... well, it clicks with us on an emotional level. That's about it.

Exactly, it's Science Porn. Not just because the lead is kicked up to uber competence, the main draw is that you have everyone else in the world playing the vanilla Arthur Dent, thus the scientific method itself becomes a superpower. For those of us good at science and math, that's very appealing as an Escapist Character.

I'd just like to note that I've nothing against Escapism, just that I want people to be aware that it is escapism. For my part I rather like Rationalist!Harry, though I don't like Luminosity (more from a bone-deep hatred of Twilight than from anything else).