Rename (alt titles crowner 6/19): Badass Spaniard

So do we have any new names to add to the crowner then? Because we don't have any options with a 2:1 lead, and the Swashbuckler ones are both at 4 apiece.

We're working on it.

So, "Hero" may be problematic, but is everyone ok with "Dashing"? Two of us came up with that simultaneously, so it can't be all bad. Is Heroic better than Hero, or just as bad? Is there another adjective that works better?

I feel like we're finally making progress, even though it's still slow.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

Dashing Hispanic Character? "Character" is sorta bland, but since these aren't always leads it works better then my first idea of "protagonist".

How about Dashing Daredevil Hispanic? Too much?

eta: actually, I think Dashing Hispanic Daredevil is better word-order.

edited 30th Jun '12 9:50:45 PM by Xtifr

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

Way too much.

Rhymes with "Protracted."

I'll retract my opposition to "hero," so Dashing Hispanic Hero could work (that said, when I think Swashbuckling Dashing is what comes to mind).

How about Brave Dashing Hispanic? (Punctuated with a comma, of course.)

edited 1st Jul '12 1:03:25 PM by Xtifr

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

Brave and Dashing are similar enough to make it seem redundant (when have you heard of a dashing person who was a coward?) and it doesn't flow smoothly.

And my least favourite option is leading again.

The one that's currently leading has two words, both of which are wrong and will certainly lead to abuse/misuse. Is that the one you're referring to? :)

This trope has nothing to do with swashbuckling, and isn't limited to spaniards.

edited 1st Jul '12 10:47:18 PM by Xtifr

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

Yep, that's the one. But I'm guessing people like the alliteration of Swashbuckling Spaniard and don't know/care that it's wrong on two counts.

I have to agree that that title is potentially misleading. Ironically, I like Zorro Clone best. Even though it's character-named.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer

Choosing names that actively mislead people is not really the purpose of TRS, though. If we let this one go with that name, we're pretty much failing. In fact, I fail to see how it's an improvement over the original name, which also had two incorrect words.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

I added another option called The Zorro, since that would be a better alternative to Zorro Clone. Although it's still a character-based trope (even if it's a particular famous character), and people will assume that the character would have to be masked and use a sword.

I just have a random administration question; what does clocking the discussion do in terms of deadlines? I don't think we're going to be getting a name that will have a huge lead in votes, I created this topic three months ago today with very little done to fix the problem.

Anyway, onto the other part, we need to change the description of the trope to accurately reflect what it's really about. Now Shima gave us two different dot lists;

• Hispanic with a notable accent
• Bound to a code of honour
• Romantic, dashing, and/or debonair
• Badass with their weapon of choice
• Athletic, nimble and graceful in battle
• Quick thinking and witty

And the second one is;

• Code of honour
• Charming
• Chivalrous
• Good with the ladies
• Hispanic or Spanish accent
• Athletic and acrobatic
• Vengeful streak, wants revenge on someone or something

Between the two I'd pick the first, since it has Quick Thinking and Witty, over the latter, which adds a Vengeful streak which in my opinion makes the trope a lot more restrictive than it needs to be.

Anyway, here's my propposed description (and I suck balls at these, so be warned);

---

The (Whatever the hell we end up deciding on) is particular type of Anti-Hero, skilled in their weapon of choice and either Hispanic in origin (including that settings equivilant) or a non-hispanic character styled after them.

They are charmers, always witty and quick-thinking, and a hit with the ladies (or men, depending on gender or sexual orientation). Their fighting styles are more about being athletic and precise, and their actions are governed by a strict code of honor they adhere to. They usually have a habit of swearing vengeance on someone whose wronged them, and god help anyone who gets in the way of their revenge.

While this trope was codified around Zorro, it's since evolved a long way from it's roots and is now as at home in a modern setting as it is in a historical one.

---

Okay I'll admit I used a lot of Shima's propposed ideas for that one.

edited 2nd Jul '12 6:29:06 AM by Shaoken

Yeah, the vengeful streak is a frequent, not an always like the rest of those things on the list, but it's part of the trope that's parodied when it comes up so it's important enough at least for a mention. Your description works better.

edited 2nd Jul '12 7:17:21 AM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

I actually don't have a problem with the Spaniard reference per se — even if the character is not actually Spanish, they're imitating the style of the swashbuckling spaniard. However I guess having "spaniard" in the title makes it sound more limited than it is, in that case, so I'm okay with a rename.

It seems to me that the key attributes here are improbable swordfighting skills, a dashing personality, and a thick spanish accent.

Excellent fighting skills—swords are definitely not a requirement. The archetype is about the character, not the time period or setting. Pistoles or lasers are fine too.

I think Shaoken's description is a good start. I might try to work in something like "a bit of a rogue" in there somewhere, to give us a better idea of what type of anti-hero we're dealing with, but aside from that and a few grammatical rough edges, I think it's pretty good.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

Yeah, bit of a rogue. Guns are just as common as swords, but I've also seen knives, whips, chains, pistols, machine guns, laser weapons, the general feel is that it's a fast weapon. They never use anything big and clumsy. It's always fast and fluid.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Okay, here's a slightly modified version of my description.

---

The (Whatever the hell we end up deciding on) is particular type of Anti-Hero, a bit of a rogue, skilled in their weapon of choice and either Hispanic in origin (including that settings equivalent) or a non-hispanic character styled after them.

They are charmers, always witty and quick-thinking, and a hit with the ladies (or men, depending on gender or sexual orientation). Their fighting styles are more about being athletic and striking with finesse than clumsy swings, and their actions are governed by a strict code of honor they adhere to. They usually have a habit of swearing vengeance on someone who’s wronged them, and god help anyone who gets in the way of their revenge. Expect this trait to be played up in parodies.

While this trope was codified around Zorro, it's since evolved a long way from its roots and is now as at home in a modern setting as it is in a historical one.

I don't see a reason to go with the clunky Dashing Heroic Hispanic over just Dashing Hispanic. (And I still like "Swashbuckling" better.)

edited 3rd Jul '12 1:18:28 PM by troacctid

Rhymes with "Protracted."

Swashbuckling is misleading and has nothing to do with the trope.

That last draft of the description still sounds like it's talking about blades when guns are more common.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Well I think it's not misleading and is a great description of the trope, even though no literal buckler-swashing is involved. Which is the exact opposite position so I guess we have to agree to disagree.

Rhymes with "Protracted."

There's no figurative swashbuckling in any examples in modern settings. It's just going to confuse people. People don't see a character with a bunch of guns and go swashbuckler no matter what his personality is like. And it's going to get any hispanic character with a sword shoehorned in even if they don't fit the personality bit.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Why is 'The' Dashing Hispanic? Isn't putting The in the title usually reserved for character named traits? I'd prefer we dropped that.

Anyway, I'm personally okay with having swashbuckling in the title though I'll admit it's not perfect.

edited 3rd Jul '12 3:39:22 PM by Arha

Confusing and misleading the readers is never a good idea, and confusing and misleading the readers is exactly what "swashbuckling" would do, even if some would still be able to figure it out.

eta: arguing that an incorrect word would not be misleading seems like pure sophistry.

edited 3rd Jul '12 4:47:01 PM by Xtifr

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.