German Politics Thread

But culture and language don't vanish over night just because someone redraws a border as can be seen in countries like Switzerland and Belgium for language and Italy and Germany for cultures.

But as long as the EU remains a trade union it will always be the biggest traders calling shots. For the EU becoming a federal union with individual state governments is the only way to have every member have an equal say otherwise the EU will forever remain "France, Germany, and others".

edited 9th Dec '17 5:31:07 AM by Kiefen

You may not want to set that goal. Our experience is rather illustrative enough of the pitfalls of trying to go that route.

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives

Let's take Tirol. Part of it has been in Italy for decades now. Doesn't change the fact that the people living their speak a version of German and follow their own culture and traditions. Or the border between Germany and Denmark, which was basically drawn on the basis of "okay, do you feel more German or more Danish?".

Seeing as I come from a culture that has spent the past thousand years fighting a never-ending battle to hold on to its 'little regional quirks' from a conquering culture that - at very best - has exactly your attitude about it (and has been much worse in practice), my response to this sentiment would be impolite. Among other things, it's generally outside cultures that define what's 'little' about those regional 'quirks', with very little - and usually no - consideration for what the affected culture itself might define as 'little'.

It depends on the power imbalance between cultures; a language can die out in a generation without aggressive intervention to save it (and sometimes, even with that, the outcome is to prolong the extinction by a couple of decades rather than actually save it). Once the language has been lost, the culture that was tied to it cannot survive.... except in the form of a few lingering 'regional quirks'. And, where a language has faced the possibility of extinction, even if it can be saved, there's usually irreparable damage done to the culture that was linked to it.

One advantage of federalisation is that regional cultures can, potentially, mostly survive if the federalisation is done with thoughtfulness (i.e., a long, intensive, and probably expensive, route).

edited 9th Dec '17 7:14:32 AM by Wyldchyld

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

I've always thought European-wide federalization has to start locally, from the bottom, than from upon high. Like have mini-unions among like nations and then federalize those at the continental level. For instance, the Baltic states in union, a modern Czechoslovakia, etc.

Obviously there are problems of nationalism for such unions, but thats also true for federal europe as a whole.

Did You Think Someone Would Look There?, Saxony Edition.

Stumped? Go here.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot

It's mainly because of the font. While Fraktur was actually banned under the Nazi regime later on, it's still associated with this era today.

That combined with the laurel wreath really makes the wrong impression - hence why they got rid of it.

It's also important to note that this wasn't an official logo - Rheinmetall offered to stitch a logo of choice onto the seat cushions and apparently the unit in question suggested this one.

edited 20th Dec '17 11:49:36 PM by DrunkenNordmann

Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.

The idea actually makes me a bit nauseous.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

Not better. But then, its Saxony so I am not surprised.

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So the police of Cologne send a New Years Greeting and Information out in various languages...among them Arabic.

So of course an AfD politician throw a hissyfit

She's now under investigation for Sedition and, for bonus points, she has the honor of being the first person to get her Twitter account suspended under the new legislation that demands social media get the hammer for this sort of hate, which went into effect at the beginning of the year.

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Can't feel triumphant about this...she will milk this for all what its worth.

And fucking so? They'll always do that, they are populists.

If you let "They'll be able to talk about it" as reason to not act upon those actions you are scaring yourself into utter non-action. Too afraid to take a hit to ever throw one yourself...

Call out the Nazis, call out the racists, call them out on the streets, call them out on the net. Let them scream, let them milk it because if we all call them out we will drown them out.

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It is good to see that those new laws seem work.

Reading up her Wikipedia page, this woman is the perfect example why the breaking the political (and most of the economic influence) power and influence of the old nobility was one of the better long-term outcomes of WWII in Germany.

We will have to wait and see...I am critical about the new law. Thankfully she was complaining about something even right-wingers might have trouble to agree with. After all, if you tell the people how to behave in Arabic, they can hardly claim later on that they had no idea about the rules. I was actually expecting some extreme left-winger complaining about it being "condescending".

A "fun" thing I noticed: While a lot of Germans online tend to be very critical of the law, they stiill sometimes defend it when the "free speech" brigade shows up again.

Because apparently some people still think the American constitution applies to Germany.

Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.

The American Constitution does not apply to what people say "Free Speech" is.

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I don't follow you....what has the American constitution to do with it? Or American law in general?

To clarify something, I am absolutely pro the definition of free Speech in Germany, which ends at the point where free speech turns into hate speech or liable and can to actually damage in a way just voicing an opinion can't. I am also pro holding internet platform responsible for what they allow online. If hate speech is reported, they should be forced to check and act. I am just worried that the new law skips the "check" requirement, so that it becomes more a general tool to blacklist people regardless of if what they do has anything to do with hate speech or not.

Its the fact that a lot of people mistakenly assume the US Constitution says Freedom of Speech means "They can say anything they want and you have to listen!" (Which it does not) and then that interpretation hops over the atlantic.

Like people wondering why German courts don't have juries.

And you'd think they write something in that law to that effect....

Oh. Wait. *throws §3 NetzDG* They. Did.

edited 3rd Jan '18 8:12:41 AM by 3of4

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That. If I had a cent for every time I had to explain to someone that American law isn't relevant to German legal cases....

edited 3rd Jan '18 8:11:31 AM by DrunkenNordmann

Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.

I'm not opposed to charges being pressed if a public figure says something that smacks this strongly of profound racism. In that case, they at least have to try and explain their no doubt inane mouth-dribbling bullshit before a court of law rather than just being allowed to say it, for all intents and purposes, unopposed by the organs of state.

At least this sends a very clear and present message: If you're going to spew things that could be considered hate speech, be prepared to back it up in a court of law, or shut up.

edited 3rd Jan '18 8:24:52 AM by math792d

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.

That being said, it seems Twitter went and took the new laws right into Lawful Stupid at points. Because of course they did. I cannot wait for people to go and claim the law is at fault for Twitter's actions in being stupid about enacting it and we should just can it again..

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How did Twitter go lawful stupid on them?

Thats, fully in character for Twitter, I am just curious as to how.

They also apparently hit satire tweets with the banhammer, despite being obviously satire. In short, hit everything even remotely suspicious and let god sort them out. I for one hope the Government hits them for that, cause the text of the law clearly states that this behavior is not okay.

Beyond that, It seems Twitter hasn't managed to properly train the people who are supposed to judge the content which they really need to get their game on, but we'll probably only see in a while if they do that.

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Ahhhhh, well for right now I am willing to file that under "Not sure what there doing yet" but it is definatly an issue that needs to be sorted out.

Honestly, I think that those social media sides do this deliberately, in order to encourage their users to turn against any law which requires them to act responsible.