Coming out of the atheist closet help thread

This may not be the best site to go to, but... I need some help coming out of the atheist closet. One side of me is pretty sure that my family will accept it without much problems, another part is just afraid of the discussion. See, every single member of my family is christian, as is everyone on my work (The latter more so).

Before any christian out there is making a post judging me, DON'T. I've spent a lot of thought on this. I'm not going into a preach on just why I became an atheist, so I expect you not to convert me either. I'm just tired of lying to myself, and need some help to get out.

Stuff happens. Post it here so we can laugh at you >=D

I'm just gonna change the title of this thread so it can be a bit more general...

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.

(Double-post 'cause this is me as a troper, not as a mod:)

If there are questions you want to ask or ones that you think you are going to be asked, or if there are ways you expect to be challenged, you should make a post about those so that we know what kind of help you need.

BTW, I made a similar post in response to your request on the Troper Covens atheist thread. Don't answer to that; let's stick to this thread from now on.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.

How important is religion to your family?

If you go to church with them on a regular or semi-regular basis, perhaps you could start by politely telling them you don't want to go any more?

Be not afraid...

Can't you say you're a religious atheist?

Dutch Lesbian

It's actually a lot better to "come out" as a non-religious theist than a religious atheist. This probably used to be exactly the opposite, but things change. Where the focus used to be on the community and the traditions, the focus is increasingly on the theistic beliefs themselves.

My advice, is to gauge the situation carefully. Is there a possibility you could lose your job because of this? Lose necessary social and financial supports? If so, you may not want to come out of the closet. Or to put it a different way, unless you're sure that if need be you can pack up and move, that is, you have real independence, you have to be careful.

Democracy is the process in which we determine the government that we deserve

Is it really such a big deal in the workplace? I mean, my friends all mostly know what religion I am because it pops up in conversation now and then, but it's not something that I would discuss with co-workers or acquaintances.

Be not afraid...

Sounds a little bit like being a celibate prostitute.

I'd like to offer whatever support and advice I can, but need more context. I'm guessing you live in a rural area of the United States? Roughly how old are you? How much do you depend on your family for financial support? What are the odds you would lose your job if outed, and are there anti-discrimination laws in your state that would help you fight that?

I'm tempted to suggest the nonreligious route. Say you've lost interest in religion, stop going to church, and when topics of faith come up inform people that you don't want to talk about it. You don't need to be vocal in order to exercise your right to withdraw from religious activities and conversations.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

So Buddhism is celibate prostitution now?

Dutch Lesbian

I suppose my advice would depend on what your family is like. What kind of Christians are they? Do they believe that all non-Christians are going to Hell, or do they accept the possibility of alternate paths to truth (even if they are flawed in their view)? If they disapproved of your choice, would they punish you in other aspects of your life with them, or would they be able to give you unconditional love even if they disagreed with your religious beliefs? Is your relationship in other areas with them strong, or are there tensions that already exist? (You don't have to answer these questions publicly if you don't want to, but they may be things you want to consider before taking your next step.)

In terms of work, why would you need to mention it at all? Talking about contentious topics such as religion is normally discouraged anyway (at least in the workplaces I have been in).

By the way, at least in my view, you have nothing to be ashamed of. Even though I am a practicing Christian, I have a much greater respect for someone who leaves the faith due to an honest process of spiritual discernment rather than one who stays in it due to some mixture of fear, inertia, and self-doubt.

edited 23rd Mar '12 6:06:14 AM by BokhuraBurnes

First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win.

I stand corrected. Though that kind of conundrum could make for a great koan if you're a Zen Buddhist.

edited 23rd Mar '12 6:04:43 AM by RadicalTaoist

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

I'd advice against going "religious atheist" or some such, because your problem is having to pretend to belong to a group you don't, and just switching from one lie to another isn't usually an improvement.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.

Well, actually I live in the Netherlands, but in an area snarkingly called the Bible Belt. I feel my family is pretty open to these things ("Respect for everyone" pretty much overrules everything else), especially compared to some others, but my workplace is not quite as open. They (I work at a christian bookstore, by the way) are just short of being actively hostile to other religions, but do find all religions but protestant christianity to be works of the devil. The laws in my country are good enough to make sure I won't get fired solely due to my religion (or more accurately, lack thereof), but I'm afraid of possible social consequences.

Also, due to physical problems and the country being in a recession, I can't exactly find another job whereever I want to in the case I do get fired for whatever reason.

Stuff happens. Post it here so we can laugh at you >=D

I think that your family deserves to know.

My whole family, except for my sister, is Christian, albeit definitely not of the "unbelievers go to Hell" variety; and while we all (and especially my parents) were a little sad when my sister announced that she did not believe anymore, we certainly were not disappointed in her, nor did we disown her or anything. I think that she is in the wrong on this; but I certainly respect her honesty and her dedication to what she considers the truth. But if we learned that she did not trust us enough to tell us what she thinks, well, that would have hurt a lot.

The job and social issue, however, sounds more tricky. One random idea that comes to my mind: I know that Unitarian Universalism is relatively popular in the Netherlands, at least in the big cities. And of course, Unitarian Universalism is entirely compatible with atheism. Perhaps you might want to look at UU, and, if you find that it is compatible with your worldview, frame your change of beliefs as a "conversion" to UU?

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

Well, it might be prudent to see if you can find a new job and when you have some options open in case you get driven out (for example by bullying) from your job, you can come out without losing your independence.

I did a couple of quick Google searches for atheist support groups in the Netherlands, but all the results were about the US. I think I could find results with better Google-fu, but maybe you can search Google in Dutch and thus avoid the overwhelming strength of US-centred English-language pages. I think switching from English would completely avoid that problem.

From the list of affiliates of the AAI (Atheist Alliance International,) I found this Dutch site.

Once you find such a group (or maybe I found the right one for you already,) they can help you. You can join their fora or e-mail them or something, and there's bound to be someone who's helped many people before and wants to find and help you, too.

You're right that you can't be fired for religious reasons in the Netherlands. The EU has rules about that, and even if your employer wanted to break the law and local and national courts would support them, you could ask some atheist organisation to carry your case to the EU courts and you'd easily win there. Not that anyone wants things to come to that. I'm also pretty sure that Dutch courts wouldn't allow you to be fired, but in any case you're safe as long as you're in the EU.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.

I don't feel the need to tell people I'm an atheist. Even though my parents, particularly my mom, are somewhat religious they don't generally talk about it and we never go to church. I did attend a religious school when I was younger, with uniforms, strict disciplinarianism and orderly sex segregated lines. Which I hated... And I've argued with my mom about homosexuality and pre-marital sex, and her belief in authoritarian parenting styles. But she's pretty cool. I never told my parents I was an atheist, but I'm pretty sure it's obvious to them.

Now, I am disturbed by the insanity of Jesus freaks, but I don't have a problem with their religion intrinsically. I do have a problem with their politico-sexual conservatism, their anti-science attitudes, their gender-essentialism and familialism, and their authoritarian parenting philosophy. It is especially annoying to have one as a teacher, who feels the need to constantly preach.

I vowed, and so did you: Beyond this wall- we would make it through.

Please refrain from terms like "Jesus freaks." I know what you're talking about and I know you're not trying to imply that moderate Christians don't exist, but come on. If you promise to be civil and refrain from these needlessly inflammatory terms, I promise you I'll thump anyone who comes here to talk about "evil, godless heathens" or something like that.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.

@OP: Coming out to my parents as an atheist has been easier than coming out to my parents as bisexual and polyamorous (which I still need to do). Of course, the period of time immediately after was pretty awful, but things are WAY better now.

My (step)dad doesn't talk to me any more, and the rest of my family is still trying to "win" me back by incessantly sending me bible verses and those chintzy "inspirational" posters (you know, the ones with the "Smile! God loves you!" sort of things), then turning around and doing the whole "those stupid atheists are everything wrong with the country, I hope they burn in hell" thing in their Facebook posts.

Funnily enough, their efforts to convert me back have only reinforced the reason why I stopped believing in the first place.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

Strictly speaking, how can one even be godless and a Heathen, anyway?

While I get what you are saying, can I say that I rather dislike this term? It seems to imply that those of us who are not out to harass and persecute unbelievers are "not as Christian" than those who do...

While it is true that Dutch law does not allow him to be fired, it is also true that if his colleagues are the kind of people who gets unpleasant at "unbelievers", they could make his life pretty annoying. I think that the OP has a duty to tell the truth to his family; but as for his colleagues, well, his religious beliefs are none of their business. Lying about them would be very poor form, of course, but he is under no obligation to announce his beliefs to them, or even to discuss religion with them at all.

edited 23rd Mar '12 7:41:59 AM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

Fair enough. I wasn't referring to Christians generally, I was talking about the kind of Christians neobullseye seemed to be having problems with. (which you seemed to notice, but I thought I'd clarify anyway). But yeah, you're right.

I vowed, and so did you: Beyond this wall- we would make it through.

I don't want to go into a semantics derail, but I think I can, with one sentence or so, clarify why I think the terms "moderate [whatever]" can be used. It's to do with the various meanings of the word moderate. In cases where someone is said to be "moderate [whatever]," it is not meant that they are "moderately [whatever]," but that they are "[whatever] and behave in a moderate manner" in the sense that "moderate" means pretty much the same as "well-behaved."

So not "less Christian," but "less over-the-top, in-your-face Christian."

Now, of course, this still implies that there are Christians who are kind of "over-the-top" and "in-your-face," but that's hardly something that anyone here would likely try to deny.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.

I'm kind of in the same situation. I did make my inactivity clear and raised a few questions about belief, but never actually did come out of the closet in this regard. I could offer a bit of advice, but chances are it's been mentioned before. As it is, I'm trying to find an opportune time to come out as irreligious (specifically Agnostic Atheist), although there are chances that my parents can still accept me. As it is, I'm trying to find a way to support myself.

I now go by Graf von Tirol.

Fair enough. It still sounds strange to me — personally, I would not call an atheist who does not hate believers a "moderate atheist" — but as you said, it's just semantics.

edited 23rd Mar '12 9:01:02 AM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

I concur with Best Of. "Moderate" is not intended as an insult, quite the contrary. As far as I'm concerned it basically means "cool-headed and rational" in this context. And I would call an atheist who doesn't hate believers a "moderate" atheist, while liking to think that I'm a "moderate" antitheist for the same reason.

OP: I'd follow Carc's advice and "come out" to your family, but not your co-workers. Working in a Christian bookshop particularly could just make it too awkward.

edited 23rd Mar '12 10:50:20 AM by pagad

With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.

There are lots of Christian atheists in the Netherlands. Rejecting theism and rejecting Christianity are two different things.

When I converted to Christianity, I didn't really "come out to" anyone. I let my actions speak for myself when I was with my friends and coworker, though even then it wasn't too different than how I acted all along. Those who want to know your religious preference will ask. The behavior of Christians and of atheists is rather diverse and as such you might be creating a false dichotomy between "pretending to be someone I'm not" or "come out as atheist to everyone I work with" .