Not Tropeworthy NEW CROWNER 12/01/2012: Capulet Counterpart

What needs to be done:

Check the wicks.

• Examples that do not involve changing sides because of love need to be removed or moved to High-Heel–Face Turn.
• Proper examples need to be changed to Defecting for Love, with proper alphabetisation.
• The main page needs cleaning up.

edited 1st Feb '13 3:04:09 AM by lu127

Well, the Image Pickin' thread shows that there's of confusion over what actually counts as this. Maybe it is too vaguely-defined as it is.

The consensus in the Image Pickin' thread seems to be that Juliet isn't an example...which would make the trope due for a rename as well since the Capulet family association falls flat (and while they're technically the antagonists of the play, both families are morally gray to some extent). Just one more thing wrong with this trope.

Isn't that just a more specific version of High-Heel–Face Turn?

Well HHFT is about when a villainous group has only one woman, and that woman is the one to switch sides. This one doesn't require the character being the only member of her gender.

I think this is tropeworthy, but the name is pretty bad given that the Trope Namer really isn't an example.

So it's High-Heel–Face Turn only less specific?

I'm with you on this. It should probably be a trope (or maybe merged with High-Heel–Face Turn), but the name is bad in every possible way. (The Capulets vs. Montagues was never a good vs. evil fight, and the "counterpart" bit makes me think of "character who has the same role but on the opposite side", not necessarily a love interest.)

I reeeally find this redundant to High-Heel–Face Turn.

I didn't see it as "High Heel Face Turn except less specific" so much as "Heel Face Turn + Love Redeems except more specific." A trope must be more than the sum of its parts and I'm not really seeing that here.

The only thing I can see here is the general Double Standard that women are too kind/gentle/passive/weak/useless to be "true" villains which gives rise to tropes like High Heel Face Turn and this (I believe there's a blurb on it somewhere in Gender Dynamics), but I'm not sure if that alone makes Capulet Counterpart tropable.

Maybe we expand High Heel Face Turn to cover a general, somewhat subtler tendency for female villains to be less evil at heart and pull Heel Face Turns (often out of love for The Hero), similar to the Never a Self-Made Woman page. Thoughts?

edited 22nd Mar '12 10:25:31 AM by Waafu

I think the alleged difference is that the Capulet Counterpart is not herself a "heel", just on that "team". Heel–Face Turn and High-Heel–Face Turn are explicitly about villains.

I think that's it. Both the description and the laconic state that s/he starts off "not evil".

As I see it, High-Heel–Face Turn is about how females are more likely to pull a Heel–Face Turn, and this trope is really more Heel–Face Turn + Love Redeems except there isn't necessarily much redemption to it since the Capulet Counterpart is often a Punch-Clock Villain.

Edit:Yeah, what he said.

I'd support a rename though, since the trope namer is hardly an example.

edited 23rd Mar '12 2:17:45 AM by Godnat

Ah, that makes it different then.

I think this trope is basically Switching Sides For Love.

Thanks for the clarification, everyone. I think I can agree now that the trope is more than the sum of its parts (love causes the character to see that she was on the wrong side all along), and Switching Sides For Love sounds like a good rename.

Hmm, do we have a trope for when the hero is in love with an antagonist, but they don't necessarily switch sides?

Because I've seen lots of characters squeezed in under this trope for that.

edited 26th Mar '12 12:42:37 PM by ccoa

Dating Catwoman?

That's just misuse of the trope, probably caused by the godawful trope name. As stated in , we have Dating Catwoman for clear-cut heroes and villains having romantic relationships/subtext, and we have Love Redeems for clear-cut villains changing their ways after falling in love.

I like Switching Sides For Love.

Should I make a crowner?

Agreed, the crowner needs to be made.

Crowner pasted to thread.

Calling crowner in favor of renaming.

We have consensus to rename and have determined this to be a trope and distinct from High-Heel–Face Turn. The only name suggestion thus far is Switching Sides For Love. Can we brainstorm a few more?