Vegetarian manners and proscriptions

So, I've finally gone vegetarian. It's an ethical choice that was a long time coming, but that's not the point of the discussion.

I've been reading Living Vegetarian for Dummies, and though it regards ethics as the most common reason to go vegetarian, it seems to regard dealing with meat-eating family members as something similar to kashrut - all about separate cutting boards and negotiating who does the cooking.

For my part, the focus is on not giving any money to meat production. I'll cook meat that my family has already bought, but I won't buy any, and even at their house I won't eat it, so as to delay their having to restock.

I really don't know which behavior is more common, but I think my position makes more sense. (Well, obviously. It's my position.)

I haven't told my family yet, although I've just begun, give me time. I have no intention to be confrontational about it - without confrontational vegetarians, I might have started this in college - but still, I can't help but think it'll be awkward.

P.S.: Can I rely on fat-free refried beans to be made without lard?

edited 4th Mar '12 6:27:55 AM by DomaDoma

I've worked in the industry off and on my whole life and I can give you a couple of tips and suggestions.

• Trying to control or manage other people's meat eating behavior can really make them angry. Remember that this is your choice that you have made for you.
• The separate cutting boards utensils thing is kind of anal, but in the kitchen I worked at the yellow cutting boards were for meat.
• Develop the habit of reading content labels on food items. The designation "Fat Free" is really non-specific.
• Also, things can be kosher without being vegetarian and things can be vegetarian without being kosher. (Some people try to use that as a short cut, and then are sad.)
• Ask lots of questions when you are eating in a restaurant. The best salad dressing I have ever tasted has anchovy paste in it.

I've already run into the problem that restaurant employees tend to give you a blank stare when you ask if their cheese is vegetarian.

Also, I don't eat kosher, but I guess that brings up another fun topic of debate: I intend to make an exception for the Passover lamb. Pure kowtowing to social norms and cravings. Go nuts with that one.

edited 4th Mar '12 6:54:53 AM by DomaDoma

You have to be way more specific when asking questions like whether or not a cheese is vegetarian. What do you mean by that? Are you asking if it is made from milk products only? Are you asking if it is made from cow's milk or soy milk? There are so many definitions of "vegetarian" that people can't even begin to answer a generalized question like that. I worked in the deli at a natural grocery and believe me there are so many variables. As well as reasons that people eat the way they do.

The reason they give you a blank stare is because cheese is always vegetarian. It is not, however, vegan.

Cheesemaking generally involves the use of rennet, which is obtained from the stomaches of calves. So in a way, cheese is not entirely vegetarian, if one really wants to avoid everything whose production requires animal parts (well, technically milk production requires animal nipples already, but you get what I mean )

There are cheeses which use other, plant-derived substances as curdling factors, but they are relatively rare.

edited 4th Mar '12 10:40:00 AM by Carciofus

Asking for microbial rennet doesn't get me much better results, alas.

Well, yeah, cheese generally isn't vegetarian.

Neither is jelly, or any lollies (sweets or candy for you non-Aussies) that contain gelatine.

Kosher gelatin is apparently made from fish though, and I know some vegetarians allow fish and fish-derivitaves. There are also vegan gelatin-substitutes.

And if you're looking for cheese, you're pretty much going to have to stick with the soy stuff.

edited 4th Mar '12 8:51:08 PM by DrunkGirlfriend

Gelatine isn't kosher? Why is that? I thought gelatine was usually made from kosher animals anyway (cows and sheep)?

And yeah, my vegetarian friend always used to use agar-agar, which is seaweed-derived, I think.

@Loni: It's because you can't tell if it was from unclean animals or not, and gelatin can be made from any animal. Kosher gelatin is made specifically from fish, and therefore you can also be sure you're not mixing your meat and dairy.

Doma: I wish you luck with this, man. Just don't be one of those vegetarians that tries to convert people.

@DG, Ah, I see.

So, according to kosher laws fish isn't considered meat either?

@Loni: Depends on which branch you follow. Most of them have three categories for food; meat, milk, and neutral. Fish usually gets lumped into "neutral", which is also why some vegetarians have no problem eating fish.

Ha, I resolved not to do that in the OP, because I found those people pretty obnoxious myself.

I'm lacto-ovo, and likely to stay that way. For one thing, I'd rather not make yeast a daily condiment, and for another, the time-honored-if-silly If Everybody Did That doctrine shows Hindu-kept cows on one hand and wild cows on the other. And everyone who's ever been told to neuter their cat knows that wild isn't the best thing to be.

Agar is blooming delicious, by the by. If you've ever had ice cream with coconut milk instead of milk, then know that agar is the gelatin equivalent. But we did use it a lot in AP Bio, which indicates that it is renowned for not keeping.

edited 5th Mar '12 5:01:55 AM by DomaDoma

I don't know if it's different in the US, but in Britain almost all cheese other than a few specific types, like Parmesan and Edam, is vegetarian. About 90% of the stuff on your average supermarket cheese section will be certified by some vegetarian society or other and specifically list vegetable rennet on the ingredients.

Cheese is delicious. Don't give up.

The market's not as good here, but both my favorite cheddar brands check out and are pretty affordable. (Weirdly, it's a lot easier to find cheese that specifies vegetarian rennet in the ordinary supermarket than it is in the hipster natural supermarket. The hipsters have a tendency to lump it all under "enzymes", regardless of origin.)

I've had vegetarian friends, and they eat cheese. I'm not sure how strict they are, but I think their rule was more along the lines of "no cooked animal flesh" So cheese in general is OK for them. Likewise, there are shades even of that sort. Some self-described "vegetarians" will eat fish, crustaceans or mollusks.

I once read a fascinating article that argues that oysters are suitable for vegetarians. Here. In short, the author says that oysters are essentially indistinguishable from plants in all ethical respects. Check it out.

edited 6th Mar '12 2:18:29 PM by Lawyerdude

I once asked my vegetarian friend in high school what her stance was on eating worms, as they don't have brains. Her response was a nice, practical "um, ew?", and that's basically where I am regarding oysters.

You are missing out. They are delicious.

But then again, I find mollusca to be the tastiest phylum ever...

Oysters are tastier than worms. Then again, mealworms don't really taste like much, just whatever they were cooked with.

If you don't like them, no problem. I love fresh raw oysters, especially right after they've been opened. Like eating apples fresh off the tree.

I love all nature's creatures. I think they're delicious.

edited 6th Mar '12 5:36:11 PM by Lawyerdude

Related, how do you guys feel about placenta? Now, obviously it's never going to be sold commercially, but say you were at a farm and some was available. Does it count as meat?

Heres how I figure meat- Is it a part of an animal? Y/N pretty simple.

Also, I know that some vegans have ethical issues with eating honey. Some even refer to beekeeping as "slavery", which fills me with a big sense of "Huh?" If one wants to include bees on the list, then what about yeast? Is there a difference between using microscopic bacteria and insects? I dunno.