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Please read the rules below before posting. We're taking turns to post text, and text posted out of turn will be hollered.

The discussion over at the "Is being Troperiffic a Bad Thing?" thread got a few of us seriously talking about starting a full-fledged, free for all dedicated ConCrit thread. Thanks go to your friendly neighborhood Herald, Chihuahua0, for giving this the go-ahead smile

This is how it's going to work:

  • This thread is for helping people improve as writers. Please stay away from needlessly gushing or needlessly being mean when handing out criticism.
  • No mentioning your own work when giving out criticism. This is to prevent "Let's talk about ME" derails.
  • Feedback will be given to one person at a time. We're taking a deliberately slow pace; a person's turn to get feedback is generally supposed to last a week, but we're not ending someone's turn until they get feedback from at least five different people. On the other hand, the person getting feedback can end their own turn if they figure they're done.
  • When a turn ends, we wait 12 hours to see if anyone of the people who have just given feedback wants to be up next. If they don't, we pick the person up next from the feedback request list.
  • Yes, it's okay to point out spelling and grammar errors made by the person you're giving feedback to.
  • If you're unfamiliar with the original verse of a piece of Fan Fiction up for feedback, pretend it's a piece of original fiction and criticize accordingly.
  • If and when you step up to receive feedback:
    • Post actual writing (not world-building, concepts, layouts, character lists and so on).
    • Be specific in what you are looking for, or at least mention what is troubling you the most.
    • Fan Fiction is fine, but take into account that anyone not familiar with the source material will judge your piece "blind", essentially by the same standards as original fiction. This means you might get called out on flaws that fan fiction usually gets away with in practice, perhaps even justifiably so. Just like any other kind of criticism, consider it or ignore at at your discretion.
    • Be ready to hear some things you probably didn't want to hear. This should go without saying, but, please: No being bitter, being sarcastic, calling people out for "going too far" or otherwise expressing disapproval of the criticism given to you. If you think people are being unfair to your writing, make your case civilly.

With that said, I suppose we can begin and see whether this goes anywhere. The first person to respond with a post to the extent of "I'll go first" will go first.

edited 17th Feb '12 5:07:01 PM by TripleElation

Sugarp1e1 Queen of the Snakes from The Serpent Palace Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Queen of the Snakes
#1026: Jun 15th 2016 at 7:18:17 AM

So I can start my turn now?

Ryoko.
war877 Grr... <3 from Untamed Wilds Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Sugarp1e1 Queen of the Snakes from The Serpent Palace Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Queen of the Snakes
#1028: Jun 16th 2016 at 6:20:50 AM

Yay!

Okay, so my main concern is that the action scene may be lazy. I'm also afraid Ren's anxiety attack at the end isn't realistic. Point out any other issues if you see them.

Here's Chapter 2.

(I stayed there, kneeling down and out of breath, for several minutes. I wasn't expecting to get so pissed. Or to get so much power because of it.

It didn't hurt me or anything, unlike back when I would strain my muscles trying to escape. It just knocked the wind out of me.

While I was regaining my strength, I heard a curious voice in front of me.

"Are you okay?"

I look up to find a boy around my age and height with gray hair and a metal mask looking at me. The mask outlined his face and covered most of it, except for his left eye which was brown. His outfit was silvery gray and form-fitting. I was somewhat disturbed by how built he was for his age.

I thought I was alone. Where did he come from?

"I'm fine." I tell him. "Who are you?"

"I was gonna ask you that. What happened here?"

Oh, crap. He must've seen my lightning! And there are scars all over the place. What do I do?

I try to change the subject.

"Answer my question first; who are you?"

"You really can't tell me what happened? Interesting." He sounds suspicious of me. "My name is Ren. Now answer my question; what happened?"

Damn. Now what?

I regain my strength and stand. But I lower my head. What should I tell him? He'll never believe me if I told him the truth, but what other explanations is there?

"Well, whatever happened I wish I could've seen it personally." He sounds much more relaxed now. He went around examining the scars I've left on the trees, tracing his finger along the markings. "I mean, look at all these lichtenberg figures."

Lichten-what? I've never heard that word before.

"What figures?" I ask.

"Lich-ten-berg figures." He said, putting emphasis on the syllables. "They're a pattern that occurs all the time in nature. See how they branch out? This is how roots and veins grow. Frost does this too. Isn't it cool?"

Now that I take a good look, they are pretty awesome looking. They'd make a great tattoo.

"But the question is how did this happen?" He continues. "Lichtenberg figures don't just appear like this. They have to either grow or be caused by electricity." He looks at me. "Can I ask you a stupid question?"

Oh no.

"Did you do this?"

My heart racing, I blurt out. "Th-That is stupid! How could I do this?"

"With electricity, of course. Bioelectricity."

"What?"

"Bi-o-e-lec-tri-ci-ty. It's electricity you produce with your body."

My body is heating up up again. I fall silent, unable to think of anything else.

He asks me again. "Did you do this or not? Bolts-from-the-blue aren't very common and I don't see any storm clouds around here."

My muscles tense up again and a jolt of lightning shoots through me. He notices.

"Ah! I saw that! You did do this!" He says playfully. Like if he caught me sneaking into the pantry and stealing snacks.

"Shut up...!" I feel like I'm going to explode. "Don't piss me off...!"

He looks at me a bit before mockingly imitating me. "'Don't piss me off!' The 'you won't like me when I'm angry' type of guy are we?"

My hands clench into fists and I'm trembling. "I mean it...! I'm warning you...!"

"Relax, blondie. Can't you take a joke?"

"It's...not...funny..." I'm genuinely afraid I might hurt or even kill this guy if this continues.

He continues taunting me. "Aw, there's no need to cry about it."

I'm losing control. "WHAT?!"

"Of course you're confused. You know what they say about blondes after all."

"Are you calling me a retard?!"

"'Retard' is a strong word. But if the shoe fits, wear it."

"I said shut up, asshole!"

"Why should I listen to you? I thought we already established that you're less than competent. Or are you amnesiatic too?"

I'm reduced to growling like a dog.

"What? You forgot how to talk too?"

I've finally had enough and, without thinking, some of my anger-induced energy concentrated into my arm and I ran up to him as my fist made contact with his face, the pain from the impact crawling up my knuckles to my elbow.

He was sent airborne, blown back into a tree and fell face first onto the ground.

My anger immediately turned to fear as I realized what I just did and I run to him.

"Oh, my God!" I shout. "Are you okay?"

He just lays there silently, stiff as a board. Did I kill him? My heart is racing and I'm breathing heavily. What should I do with his body? Should I take it to the police and fess up? Or should I hide his body and go into hiding?

Luckily, his stiff body slowly started moving again. I breathe a sigh of relief. "Thank God. I thought I killed you."

Without talking, he slowly stands up. But something doesn't feel right.

Following my instincts, I back away from him. His head down, he speaks again, but with a disturbingly serious voice.

"Maybe you would have. But something's telling me you're not aware."

Aware?

"Aware of what?" I ask.

He lifts his head, his eye now a vivid blue that seemed to swirl around like water. He answers me.

"That you're not the only one."

His mask seemed to liquefy and seep into his face. The metal slowly spread across his body, covering everything except his clothes, until he was nothing but a silver figure.

"What the hell?!" I shout.

I saw a flash as a sudden pain engulfed my face. It felt like I was floating on air before slamming against a tree behind me. I fell to ground face first.

He speaks again. "You're dangerous. I can't have you walking around the humans with a temper like that."

Holy shit, is he gonna kill me?

My heart racing with excitement, I get up and charge my body with my lightning, the electricity coursing through me.

I smile as I ask him "So you protect the humans too?"

"What do you mean 'too'?" He remarks. "Don't try to trick me, Child."

"'Child?' What are you, 90? We're the same age!"

"You know what I mean."

He charges at me, raising his fist. I dodge, making him hit the tree instead. I sucker punch him and the pain in my arm returns. With a vengeance. I shout in pain and grab my forearm as Metal-Boy turns and punches me in the face, sending me airborne once again. I slam against a tree again, but before I could fall, he runs up and grabs me by the neck, choking me. He clicks his tongue as he speaks again.

"Is this a joke? How can someone like you cause this much damage?"

"Let me...go...!" I coughed.

"Not until you show me how strong you really are! Show me that lightning of yours!"

With no other choice, I grabbed his wrist and channeled my electricity through him, causing him to shake uncontrollably. I used this opportunity to kick him in the stomach using all of the force I can muster. I must've hit a sweet spot or something because that one kick somehow caused his metal casing to retreat back into his mask. He shouts, doubles over in pain, and backs away, letting me go. His mask falls off and lands in front of him. I manage to snatch it with my super speed before he picks it up. He recovers and notices. His eyes widen and his breathing quickens.

"My mask!" He shouts. "Give it back!" I let him run to me before using my super speed to move to another spot. "I said, give it back!" He looks increasingly panicked as I continue to taunt him.

"Over here!" I would say. "No, over here!" I was really enjoying my dominance over him.

At least until…

"Please..." He suddenly stops chasing me. His voice is breaking and he's breathing heavily. "Please give it back... Without it I can't... I can't... I can't..." He sweats profusely before falling to the ground, trembling uncontrollably. "Just... Don't kill me... Please..."

What the hell? Wasn't he a badass a few seconds ago? Concerned, but not putting my guard down, I slowly approach him.

"Hey, what's wrong with you? You better not be bullshitting me." He doesn't answer. Keeping the mask in a tight grip, I get closer to the crumbled mess before me.

"Ren!"

A female voice shoots through the trees and a girl in a green dress rushes to the boy's side. “It’s gonna be okay. Just breath.” She tells him.

I brace myself again. “Who are you?”

“I’m Eve. What happened?” She’s petting the boy’s side as she asks me.

“I don’t know.” I said. “We were just fighting and then he just… fell. You know him?”

“Yeah, he’s my friend. Did you take his mask?”

“What? Yeah, why?”

“He needs it for his powers. Now he’s a having a panic attack.” She continues to pet his side. “Just a small one. Don’t worry.”

I didn’t buy it at first, but then I remembered how he said I was dangerous and a threat to humans. Maybe they’re serious after all. But if that’s the case, then what are they? I never would’ve guessed the answer if I tried.)

Ryoko.
war877 Grr... <3 from Untamed Wilds Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Grr... <3
#1029: Jun 16th 2016 at 7:17:34 AM

I already read this chapter and mentioned that it was pretty good on all fronts. (Except for the tense trouble, which is still all over the place. :/)

For this reason I have very little to add.

Actually, it looks like you decided on present tense for everything? You still missed a was, a heard, a said, and a started.

I didn't see any laziness in the action scene.

I would remove both uses of 'with my super speed'.

I would consider a synonym for petting.

I know anxiety attacks. Or at least one type of them. I retreat inside and lose all thought. It is preceded by a strong feeling that something impossible has just happened and being caught between two necessary courses of action that are mutually contradictory. Anyway, looks similar to me.

edited 16th Jun '16 7:23:51 AM by war877

Sugarp1e1 Queen of the Snakes from The Serpent Palace Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Queen of the Snakes
#1030: Jun 16th 2016 at 7:40:49 AM

Here's the thing. In-Universe, the story is Tedrick's memoir. So ideally, he should be using past-tense. But he's also trying to describe his emotions in the moment of the events he recounts. Hence the present-tense.

So I'm lost on whether to use past or present-tense.

Ryoko.
war877 Grr... <3 from Untamed Wilds Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Grr... <3
#1031: Jun 16th 2016 at 8:00:25 AM

Technically, past tense is correct for memoirs. However, the use of present tense for memoirs is totally a thing. It is called the historical present.

Your concern that he wants to describe his thoughts and feelings in the moment is somewhat of a side question. But keep in mind, even in stories written in past tense, having direct thoughts in present tense is considered correct.

pablo360 His Holiness the Crown Prince of Bel-Air from just over the horizon Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
His Holiness the Crown Prince of Bel-Air
#1032: Jun 16th 2016 at 7:16:42 PM

I quite enjoyed it. I do have a few questions.

  1. Why, exactly, did Ren want to provoke Tedrick? I mean, aren't there less stupid ways to check whether or not someone is a danger to society? I mean, obviously I'm also wondering why exactly Ren is doing that, but that's more along the lines of questions you actually wanted me to wonder about.
  2. What are Lichtenberg figures? You give some examples, and obviously I can google it, but I don't want to. I feel like if Ren is the kind of person who knows what Lichtenberg figures are, he's the kind of person who can describe them (mathematically or aesthetically).
  3. Ren acts like he's done something like this before. Shouldn't he know better than to let someone knock his mask off, or did he plan from the beginning on Eve needing to bail him out?
  4. Shouldn't Eve know what happened? Ren isn't there randomly; that'd be a huge coincidence. And, once again, Ren acts like he's done this before (either that, or he's just way too confident in his abilities), so she should know exactly what happened.
  5. No answer to "What happened?" should ever start with "We were fighting." That's not a question; I just felt that Tedrick was acting way too familiar with this girl he just met whose friend he just thought he killed for the second time in five minutes.
  6. Also, you missed a told as well, but that's proofreading.
  7. I could follow what was happening in the action scene. Have you considered making it more confusing? Not only is a blow-by-blow dull, but unless Tedrick is a trained, seasoned, professional fighter, fights should be confusing.
  8. Related: The fight should be more personal. In general, each sentence in your story should do more than one thing. Each scene should advance more than one aspect of the story. The details that your characters notice – especially the details noted by a first person narrator – should reflect some aspect of that character. Describe the impact of the fight on the characters – the sensations – rather than just the moves.

That said, I do like Ren quite a bit. The anxiety attack gives a level of depth to an already complex character that tells me you really know how to write a character. If you can keep them consistent (which I'll wager you did with Tedrick), then you are on your path to be as great a characterizer as George R. R. Martin. One scene, without peering into his head, and Ren is already interesting.

The trouble is that he might be more interesting than Tedrick. That can be a real problem, yet in solving it you're liable to make the situation much worse. Obviously, you shouldn't make Ren less interesting, and while cutting him may have a purpose, it's not necessarily recommended.

That said, there are two other solutions you can use – if it's even a problem, which is hard to say after only one chapter featuring Ren. You could make Tedrick more interesting, to the point that he surpasses Ren again. This can be done without changing Tedrick, simply by highlighting characteristics he already has.

Or, if that doesn't work, you can make Ren the protagonist. But that's a drastic move and should only be used as a last resort. I don't think you need to do that. Nevertheless, if you're not set on making this memoir format all the way through, giving Ren a viewpoint chapter or two at some point might be worth your while.

EDIT: Also wanted to say: In response to [up] , while it is true that describing thoughts in the moment in the present tense is correct in past-tense works, it is differentiated from the rest of the narrative, either through 'single quotes' or, more commonly, italics. Although one could weave them into the narrative without such conventions, it's a terrible idea and should never be done under any circumstances, no exceptions.

EEDDIITT: Changed wording in paragraph following "EDIT:" so as to not repeat the word "while". Also added this paragraph.

edited 16th Jun '16 7:21:34 PM by pablo360

I love how our society has agreed that certain things are unrealistic because they don't occur in fiction.
war877 Grr... <3 from Untamed Wilds Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Grr... <3
#1033: Jun 16th 2016 at 7:39:57 PM

The lichtenberg figures were described in the end of the revised chapter 1.

@Sugarp1e1: Given the short length of your chapters, I think you can have two proofread at a time.

edited 16th Jun '16 7:42:38 PM by war877

Sugarp1e1 Queen of the Snakes from The Serpent Palace Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Queen of the Snakes
#1034: Jun 17th 2016 at 6:11:25 AM

1. If there is, I haven't thought of one. That aside, Ren wanted to see just how petty Tedrick was. You've probably noticed that the former's insults were pretty "schoolyard bully" level. He saw how easily angered Ted got just from being asked a lot of questions and wanted to test his temper control. That being said, Ren is supposed to be the logical one, so he could think of something smarter. But they're in the middle of nowhere. There's not much you can do.

2. Ren's greatest trait is being logical, so he knew Ted most likely wouldn't understand if he went all technical on what Lichtenberg figures are. They're branching electrical discharges that sometimes appear on the surface or in the interior of insulating materials. People that are struck by lightning often have them scarred onto their bodies. If only for a few hours or days.

3. Another trait of Ren's is his knowledge of how to use his powers. And I mean that in the most literal way possible. He only knows how to use them, not about their limits. This was the second time his mask was knocked off. The first was by a Dragon Lord. So he assumed only Dragon Lords were strong enough to do that.

4. Ren asked her to stay behind when he saw Tedrick's lightning. But she got worried and followed him anyway. By the time she got there, Ren was already having a panic attack.

5. Tedrick is fairly respectful towards adults he isn't familiar with. But to his peers he sees no problem with being blunt.

6. I'll fix that.

7. Well, Tedrick's powers are still recovering from being released in a sudden burst and Ren's pretty much at a disadvantage considering there isn't any metal around in his current environment for him to manipulate. They're both trained fighters but haven't actually put that training to use lately.

8. I thought I was already doing that. Tedrick saw a flash when Ren punched him and the former's knuckles cracked when he punched the latter.

Thank you. At least I know I'm doing something right. Being compared to the author of Game of Thrones is quite the honor.

Ren isn't really necessary story-wise, but he is character development-wise. He's supposed to be Tedrick's foil; logical but prone to panic.

I've already attempted to that with Tedrick as early as Chapter 1. He knows he has an anger problem but can't control himself. I intend to show how he also hates all kinds of restriction and is claustrophobic as a result. But I don't know when's the best time for that.

I do intend to make at least one viewpoint chapter. But I don't know if Ren's going to narrating. Again, he's not very important to the plot. Only to Tedrick's character development.

So should I use past tense or present tense?

edited 17th Jun '16 6:13:19 AM by Sugarp1e1

Ryoko.
pablo360 His Holiness the Crown Prince of Bel-Air from just over the horizon Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
His Holiness the Crown Prince of Bel-Air
#1035: Jun 17th 2016 at 10:51:16 AM

First of all, it sounds like you don't need to worry about Ren overshadowing Tedrick if he isn't even a plot-crucial character. I had assumed he would be critical in that regard because I thought that the fight with Ren was the "inciting incident", but you can never tell with the early chapters. That said, you have a lot of different facets of Tedrick, but they're all facets of the same personality trait: his temper. If you want to make him more interesting, give him other passions, other quirks, that don't have to do with his anger.

As far as your responses to my questions, those are all good points. The trouble is that, with the exception of 2, they aren't written in the story so far. You don't need to give all the explanations up front, but you also shouldn't need to defend your work. There's a tool called the scene-sequel format that you can use; basically, the next scene is the characters reacting to and processing the previous scene. This will allow you to answer all of the questions I asked. The fact that I asked them is only a problem if you don't know that you have to answer them, or are incapable; you are neither, and now you know part of what needs to go in the next scene.

Lastly, as for tense, the only real way to know is to try both.

I love how our society has agreed that certain things are unrealistic because they don't occur in fiction.
war877 Grr... <3 from Untamed Wilds Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Grr... <3
#1036: Jun 17th 2016 at 11:16:36 AM

Are you sure about that? 8 can't be answered that way, and I don't think 7, 5, 4 and 3 need answers.

Most of these shouldn't be answered in the next scene, that is for sure. Him not knowing to protect his mask in particular informs us that this character is not good at fighting. It only becomes a question if he later proves to have the skills to fight properly. Eve not knowing what happened implies she was not watching the scene. This only becomes a question if it later turns out she was. And him saying they were fighting is likewise character development. It only becomes a question if this is an unusual thing for him to say.

I had made the assumption that 1 was going to be answered at some point. It seems obvious.

And finally, blow by blow combat is correct for some scenes if the author can do them properly. This is an example of what counts as some scenes, which is why I did not comment on that.

pablo360 His Holiness the Crown Prince of Bel-Air from just over the horizon Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
His Holiness the Crown Prince of Bel-Air
#1037: Jun 17th 2016 at 2:29:34 PM

Well, the thing about this is that an author is incapable of defending their work, so if a question is raised, by any reader, reasonably there should be an answer. Just because one person isn't confused doesn't mean nobody is.

I love how our society has agreed that certain things are unrealistic because they don't occur in fiction.
Sugarp1e1 Queen of the Snakes from The Serpent Palace Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Queen of the Snakes
#1038: Jun 19th 2016 at 3:56:20 PM

Well, while I'm thinking about how to solve those issues, I need some help starting Chapter 3.

It's supposed to be an "exposition chapter" for lack of a better term, but I'm reluctant considering dropping info dumps on your audience tends to annoy them if I've not mistaken.

It's also supposed to be when another character, Dallas, makes his existence known.

A friend of mine suggested I use this chapter to flesh out the characters more, but I'm not sure how to pull that off.

edited 19th Jun '16 3:57:13 PM by Sugarp1e1

Ryoko.
war877 Grr... <3 from Untamed Wilds Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Grr... <3
#1039: Jun 19th 2016 at 4:04:20 PM

Some info always needs to be dumped. What makes it an info dump as opposed to something else is how you do it. Technically, it is not an info dump if you don't have anyone telling what happened long ago. If you show it via flashback, it doesn't count. If you show the present, and ignore the past, but still manage to communicate the same thing, it doesn't count. Artistically, it doesn't count if you do it in an entertaining way.

Note the uses of the words show and tell in the above paragraph.

As to developing your characters more, you should be doing that whenever they appear. Every second of their screen time should count as either character establishment, character development, or them advancing the plot. Focus on building the story, then look at developing the characters if and when they appear.

I can't say more than that without some details.

edited 19th Jun '16 4:04:38 PM by war877

legonut031 Nothing here. from Indon Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
Nothing here.
#1040: Jun 22nd 2016 at 1:08:16 AM

So whose turn is it now? Just asking.

"Just because you're correct doesn't mean you're right." -Shirou
Sugarp1e1 Queen of the Snakes from The Serpent Palace Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Queen of the Snakes
#1041: Jun 22nd 2016 at 7:49:16 AM

Still mine. I need three more reviews.

Ryoko.
war877 Grr... <3 from Untamed Wilds Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Grr... <3
#1042: Jun 30th 2016 at 1:53:34 AM

Okay, it has been exactly two weeks. Which under the new rules, (which still hasn't been updated), the turn is over automatically. So, is anyone up to bat, or are we going to rest for a while?

This thread needs a bit of marketing to attract a few more reviewers.

edited 1st Jul '16 1:33:57 PM by war877

AwSamWeston Fantasy writer turned Filmmaker. from Minnesota Nice Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Fantasy writer turned Filmmaker.
#1043: Jun 30th 2016 at 7:21:26 PM

Sugarp1e1, I'm sorry. I wish I could add my thoughts to your critique session, but everything I was going to say has already been said, and better.

If we move on, it looks like it's Legonut031's turn.

And yeah, I know how this looks — jumping in, talking about rules and stuff and never posting in this thread before. Sorry about that.

edited 30th Jun '16 7:21:52 PM by AwSamWeston

Award-winning screenwriter. Directed some movies. Trying to earn a Creator page. I do feedback here.
war877 Grr... <3 from Untamed Wilds Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
DeMarquis Who Am I? from Hell, USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
#1045: Jul 1st 2016 at 5:02:05 AM

This idea of needing a set number of reviews bugs me. Sugar is ready to start writing, that was clear from the comments she was getting. Which is excellent news for her. Now it feels right to let someone else go.

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
legonut031 Nothing here. from Indon Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
Nothing here.
#1046: Jul 2nd 2016 at 3:11:49 PM

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B_HJ9SmKWuDza0Jxb01LQ1I2RDQ It's just basic undermines of a plot of each chapter. I was busy all this time so I only ended up writing four. Any feedback is appreciated, I've already prepared a lot of questions, in the 'before you read' document.

At this point I'm in a writer's block. Does anyone have any basic plots that (normally) should happen next so I can make fun of it?

Plus, have anyone had any idea how to entice the feeling of chaos in a story? Not using chaotic characters, but a feeling that everyone's just going each their own ways, unaware of any real goal? I would like to write this story with no real villains in mind, only fallible humans and the morals that God had given them, which lingers better in a few person than the other.

"Just because you're correct doesn't mean you're right." -Shirou
war877 Grr... <3 from Untamed Wilds Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Grr... <3
#1047: Jul 3rd 2016 at 5:31:35 AM

Well. I read the before you read and already I'm overwhelmed. Remind me if I forget to comment on one of those points. I should probably have something to say on each.

Early note. If you can write personality but can't show personality, then what you are asking is how to be efficient at communicating.

Chapter One: The First One.

Wish I could make notes on these documents. The first paragraph awkward sentence has:

The woman is relatively quiet, while the man was busy thinking when the woman interrupted,

Followed by a redundant vanilla dialogue tag.

I was too busy deciding what particular pieces of that game needs to be done first to actually go down and meet her.

Hmmm, Someone talking to a colleague would probably be way more vague and efficient about this. like: "Too busy working on the game to go and actually meet her."

...super quick deadlines...

I assume you mean "such tight deadlines"

boring out the old guys.

go up to develop high standards. develop high standards.

...until they get got on the subway home.

I assume you mean "where sat an old woman":

They immediately sat down at the dining table, where an old woman had already sat ever since before they came.

The three of them was were too busy

She seemed tired from all that had happened that day, but she doesn’t didn't look like she’s was gonna tell what happened today.

After the dinner is over, everyone got went upstairs and went to their bedrooms.

...Yohanan greeted his father.“She just won a baseball...

There’s was not much to see other than white snow everywhere. Everyone wasn’t No one was awake by 6 am, which is still dark before the dawn, except for Yohanan and Dzuhomi, again with their fencing. Dzuhomi had thought taught Yohanan lots of things before, including half-swording, so this time it’s just some speed training. The sound of swords clanging against each other woke everyone up, including Date Sadao, a young man that had recently graduated college, and is was still looking for a job.

...interrupt the scene to not actually ask...

...daydreaming trance and yelled at the mysterious...

“Oh, hi, Dzuhomi(-san) Dzuhomisan. Who are you?

Wierded out yet disappointed his adventure doesn’t didn't start at this point in time, Sadao left them alone. They keep training until it’s mid-day, where when they stop and take a subway downtown.

I left out comment on the more pedantic grammar errors. I assume this draft is too early for most fixes to make it through to the finished product anyway.

If your goal is to work this into a novel, then you have a lot of work on sentence structure to do, although most of the awkward phrasing is justifiable if that is part of the voice of your characters or narrator. If your goal is to work this into a webcomic, then the narration is irrelevant, but you may still want to clean the dialogue up some.

Due to the awkward sentence structure, I could not get a solid read on your characters' voices. For this reason, I cannot really comment on the voices. When, later, I read chapter two, I may be able to do better.

I had a hard time reading the text for anything, really, searching for referenced to Christianity, morals, proper use of showing, as the grammar and sentence structure obscured the text somewhat.

edited 3rd Jul '16 5:35:20 AM by war877

legonut031 Nothing here. from Indon Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
Nothing here.
#1048: Jul 3rd 2016 at 5:24:17 PM

Yeah, sorry about all those grammar mistakes. To be honest English is probably the third language taught at my school, and while I was the best at English back then I am aware it's not perfect. And the past tense use still messes me up until this day, especially because this story is set in the near future. For these few chapters I still haven't put in any Christian allegories and morals. Don't worry there's not gonna be any ressurection or straight up "I am Jesus" scenes. I hate those.

"Just because you're correct doesn't mean you're right." -Shirou
war877 Grr... <3 from Untamed Wilds Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Grr... <3
#1049: Jul 3rd 2016 at 5:49:40 PM

Ah. Well the reason I said the grammar and sentence structure obscured the things like character voice and symbolism, is usually those things are in the details, and the details are the part bad grammar and sentence structure obscures the most.

As to how to create a story with lots of randomness in it, I cannot answer that either. Because there are lots of ways to add randomness, and lots of different types of randomness.

If you just want a hectic feel, that is easy enough with just doing small things, such as jumping between subject frequently in the narrative, and making the odd confusing sentence.

For a broader random feel, you may want to write multiple stories that happen at the same time.

Anyway, there are ways to write conflict that centres around two people that are entirely in the right, although they are difficult to pull off. Usually, one or both sides has incomplete information. The other way is to have both sides have a different belief about whether an outcome is good or evil.

So, what kind of struggle do you want in your story? Good guy beats up criminals? Saving a city from disaster? A person forced into criminal activity through blackmail and they want to sabotage it? A person's sister is killed and they want to kill the killer?

edited 3rd Jul '16 5:50:06 PM by war877

DeMarquis Who Am I? from Hell, USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
#1050: Jul 3rd 2016 at 8:03:09 PM

I am reading chapter one, and I'll just post a few comments about the first page or two, since I find that stylistic challenges are pretty much consistent throughout a work. If you can understand what my impression of your first few pages is, then you can extrapolate pretty easily to the rest of it.

Opening scene: You don't do enough to "set the scene". Where is this taking place? Does it look like the kind of modern, Western city we are all familiar with? Or is it in the future? Is this a sci-fi setting, an urban fantasy setting, an Indonesian setting, or what? Clue the reader in with some visual description. At the same time, the visual and sensory cues you provide should also act to establish the theme and tone of the rest of the story. A parody should look funny, an action-adventure should look dangerous, a mystery should look... well, mysterious. You get it.

Opening dialogue: Now you have to provide some physical description of the two people in this setting. What do they look like, how are they acting, etc. Obviously, just as the sensory impressions you create for the setting should provide clues to the tone of the work, the physical description of the two people should provide clues regarding what type of characters they are. That means you will need somewhat detailed character descriptions for them. Do you have such descriptions prepared?

The opening lines of dialogue:

“So what do you think about that new girl that you got?” Asked the woman.

This line does a couple of things for me. First, it establishes some emotional distance between myself as a reader and "the woman" as a character, and it also redirects my attention to a girl who isn't present. That's fine if it's intentional. Will this girl end up being an important character? If so, then teasing the reader's interest may be an effective technique. If she's less important to the story than "the woman" is, you are undermining the effect you want to produce.

The next lines of dialogue provide some information about what these two do for a living, and establish the beginning outlines of a scenario, so that's good. They then have a disagreement about deadlines, which the male character wins easily. This also undermines the importance of the woman as a character for me, so I hope she isn't critical to the story.

You then change scene to their home, which feels rushed to me. Generally, each scene in a story should be confined to one setting (there are exceptions, but I dont think this is one of them), and each scene should have a "mini-plot" within it- that is, some source of conflict or tension arises, and the characters respond to it. As it is, there seems no reason for you not to begin their conversation at home. Too many settings too quickly will seem distracting to your readers.

"They got to their home" As I say, it is the usual practice to end the previous scene before changing the setting, and to indicate this by inserting a space or other divider between the scenes. Once you decide to move the action to the house, the house needs to be described, with the same parameters I pointed out for the city.

"...where an old woman had already sat ever since before they came." BTW- this is a clear example of "telling not showing". If this old woman becomes an important character, and the fact that she has been sitting there awhile is an important piece of information about her, then you should have opened the new scene with that. Something along the lines of "The old woman had been sitting quietly at the table for quite some time." After, of course, having described both the room and the old woman.

"“Good evening mom, is Maki home yet?” said the man." etc, for about five lines of dialogue.

Here, I will share with you an approach to character interaction that I find helpful. The typical scene runs something like this:

1) Something or someone in the external environment (external to the point of view character) does something

2) The main point of view character reacts in a visceral or physical manner

3) The main point of view character reacts in a conscious, deliberate fashion.

"External events" could include someone attacking the main character, something that appears to the character, or someone saying something to them, etc. Visceral reactions are emotional in nature and take the form of clenching fists, breathing deeply, looking intensely, laughing, or whatever the scene calls for. Deliberate actions can include firing a weapon, picking up an object or saying something. Think of this as the "standard formula" for moving through a scene. And remember, a scene begins with some sort of physical description of the setting, which establishes the tone, then proceeds to a conflict or source of tension for the point of view character, then ends with some sort of resolution or outcome.

Finally, I mentioned "point of view character." In every scene, regardless of which narrative style you are using (you seem to be using 3rd person omniscient), there is one and only one point of view character. The entire scene should be described from their point of view. The POVC doesn't have to be the primary protagonist, it can be a secondary character observing things from the sidelines, even the villain, but you should decide who you are using and base your descriptions on what that character would see, think or do. So far, I don't see you doing this.

"Long story short" (heh), I think your writing style suffers from a lack of narrative structure. There are some good free resources on the web that help you learn about narrative structure.

Don't get discouraged, think of this as an opportunity to learn and improve. I'll try to read the rest of it sometime later, although I may be busy for the next couple of days.

Good luck.

edited 3rd Jul '16 8:04:50 PM by DeMarquis

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."

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