Bradley Manning and Nobel Peace Prize

Blacklisted is nowhere near as bad as assassinated. The man can still find employment. It'll be hard, sure, but there's going to be someone who'll hire him. Possibly one of the guys who absolutely think he did the right thing. For all that most of us here think he did the wrong thing, there are clearly people who will support him for it. It won't be impossible for him to find a job.

No, but it'd be impossible for him to find a job that pays him anything.

Especially since, as a whistleblower, nobody with trade secrets will touch him with a ten-foot pole, if they're sane.

"Shit, our candidate is a psychopath. Better replace him with Newt Gingrich."

Afghanistan and chemical weapons? Hmm. The casus belli for the Third Gulf War was Iraq's alleged massive stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons and their apparent willingness to use them against their regional neighbours, including from what I remember, Cyprus. Not Afghanistan.

I am old enough to remember the USSR using those against Afghanistan however.

Amusingly enough, apparently Iraq actually did have chemical weapons... but only a few hundred pounds—i.e. not enough to wipe out my home town, pop. 80,000.

"Shit, our candidate is a psychopath. Better replace him with Newt Gingrich."

Considering that we don't know the finances of every single person who views Manning in a positive manner, I'm not going to say that he couldn't find a reasonable paying job. Seems rather stupid.

I think Manning may have a hard time living a normal life if/when he gets out of jail, but as much as I think human rights are under attack for Americans by the government it has not gone so far as for him to "fall down the stairs and die" as it were. Instead, I think it reasonable to expect that he would have every job opportunity possible turned down because of his dishonourable and very high profile discharge from the military. If he leaves the USA, other governments may not want such a hot potato of a political figure, so really he has to live off the avails of others or become a full time advocate and find third party funding for his life.

edited 13th Feb '12 10:07:56 PM by breadloaf

I don't even think he deserves a dishonorable discharge, for trying to make his own military adhere to standards they have publicly claimed to adhere to. The guy tried to save his country's honor.*

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."

Thread Hop:

You want to discourage whistle blowing?

Are you mad? pissed? stupid? naive? or do you want to live in Stalins Russia?

Dutch Lesbian

Also, I fail to see how it could be difficult for him to gain job in another country. If he gets a job, he can move in with work permit(Like European Blue Card). On what basis could these countries reject him? "You released Intel on US, there for this burger joint you seek to apply for is a threat to our national security" doesn't seem like a good excuse.

If such acts are kept up, he can call for International Court for political discrimination. Unless I remember wrong how these things work again, more red tape than there are red carpets in the world...

As I said before, all he has to do is write (or have someone else write) a book about his experience (preferably while he's in jail) and he'll never have to work another day in his life.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.

Assuming this is a serious question, here's the serious answer: Manning could be rejected for a work visa based on the fact that he has a criminal record. He could be rejected for a visitor's visa based on his criminal record... Also, "not having good moral character" is a valid reason for countries to refuse giving out a Visa(and every country gets to determine their own version of what "good moral character" is for their prospective entrants)...

Now, are there countries who wouldn't care about Manning's indiscretions(or that they are of a specific nature)? Of course. But it more than likely means that only countries who are indifferent(at best) or hostile to America's interests would be likely to accept him. An English-speaking country? No way in hell.

edited 14th Feb '12 3:28:14 AM by Swish

@Medinoc,

That argument faceplants because of the diplomatic cables.

@whale,

I didn't say I want to. I said I would want to, as the government. I.e. taking on their role and viewpoint.

"Shit, our candidate is a psychopath. Better replace him with Newt Gingrich."

I fail to understand how an act tantamount to treason serves peace anywhere. Then again, there is peace and there is peace: it is not always a positive development.

edited 14th Feb '12 5:47:35 AM by Scando

And so, with joy in my heart, I hum this song.

Believe it or not, Tam, the US government probably doesn't go around paying people to assassinate others.

Osama Bin Laden says hi.

Oh no. Wait. He doesn't. He's dead.

What's precedent ever done for us?

Problem being that their orders were to capture Osama if possible and practical, and as such it was an extraction mission, not an assassination mission.

"Shit, our candidate is a psychopath. Better replace him with Newt Gingrich."

OK, how about Fidel?

Death by exploding cigar was one of the saner attempts.

What's precedent ever done for us?

I'm going to operate from the position that country loyalty isn't worth spit compared to the prevention of conflict. But I'm a dirty postnational anarchist like that.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

Treason just means disagreeing with something your country is doing strongly enough to be willing to suffer real consequences for that disagreement. It is not I Mmoral, it's Amoral, and can only be as right or wrong as the thing that you're acting against.

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.

Ah, but it's true, there is indeed peace, and then there is "peace". ML King spoke about this:

No peace without justice, and no loyalty (national or otherwise) where not deserved.

Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic

@ mandemo

I think the sad fact is that he won't get that work permit or visa. He'll get denied after a simple background check turns out "charged with espionage" and "dishonourable discharge". Unless someone wants to give him asylum, I don't see a guy like that getting work visa status anywhere in the west.

Well put, Octo.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

First off, are you really comparing Osama and Manning? Seriously? One, a guy who deliberately attacked us and caused the deaths of thousands directly and surely would have gotten the death penalty at any trial, and two, an idiot with a grudge who ultimately acted out of spite yet did nothing on the scale of Osama? Fidel is also on a completely different scale of problematic, for that matter. Comparing either of those men to Manning's situation is fucking idiotic, and just makes you look like you're straw manning. (Also note that was under Kennedy's administration, decades ago. The government's pretty much ignored the guy for decades.)

Let me clarify; the US government isn't going to waste its time with fucking small fry like Manning who it is ultimately best to just leave alone. There's no point in spite here. There's no point in hurting a guy who rules no one and thus can't really influence things. He doesn't have an army of militants hiding in caves looking for ways to hurt us. He doesn't have any political connections that could put nukes ninety miles off our coast. THE MAN IS CURRENTLY NO THREAT AT ALL. They've got him in jail already, there's no reason to do anything more to him. Seriously, quit it with the whole "he's going to die while in jail" thing. They're not going after him. They're just going to let the man and the situation fade into obscurity.

You hope.

No, I know, because I am being realistic it about instead of moronicly paranoid. I also don't go around assuming people have that much malice and disregard for human life.

In all fairness, I don't think that comparison was intending to make an equivalency between the two persons - merely to note that the US government does assassinate people when necessary. Osama likely came to mind due to being a high profile case.

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.