The Gun Thread

This is the best time to buy, because it's a buyer's market, especially for AR-15s and derivatives. Everybody and their Uncle George has started up a company manufacturing AR-15 clones now.

AR-15s make me sad. Lucky my shop does custom AKs too.

edited 25th Feb '17 3:09:55 PM by LeGarcon

I wouldn't be able to get my hands on a firearm even if I wanted one (what with living in a country where firearms are strictly for hunting and all), but I'm a sucker for the bolt-action aesthetic.

That reminds me, I saw a Remington Centennial 1911 that I really liked. Just this side of $1000, but the lady running the shop that had it cheerfully mentioned that they have a "Gun Fund", basically a piggy bank they run for folks who want to buy a gun but don't save money good

Personally, I'd shop around for something less expensive. Sure, those "Commemorative" or "Limited Edition" models are polished up nice and look fancy, but functionally, they're not really any better than a standard production gun. They're like designer blue jeans; you're paying extra just for some fashionista's name on the label and decorative stitching on the back pockets.

True, but it was the only 1911 they had in stock that wasn't one of those 1911-22s that plague gun shops everywhere.

Well, just bear in mind that gun shops are very much like car dealerships: they tend to stock the high-ticket items loaded with options, because that way their profit margins are higher. They may stock a few plain vanilla baseline models, but those tend to sell out quickly. If you want a budget model, you'll probably have to special-order it.

So the day before yesterday I went to a M4 range. Long story short, it was an utter disaster.

Zeroing - THAT one went smoothly as hell. From the very first 3-round I had a very tight grouping. It was just a matter of keep moving up (3 clicks, I remember). I only had to spend 9 rounds to zero.

Qualification - And holy shit. First of all, the range was ridiculously steep. Second, a goddamn sergeant major spotted me not wearing my eye-pro (because I wasn't issued one yet). Combined with me not shaving that morning (yeah, I got no excuse on this one), that resulted in me getting surrounded and yelled at by a sergeant first class, a first sergeant, and a sergeant major. Then I was forced to wear goggles above my glasses so I was barely able to see things. My best record with M4 was 33/40, but that day I got 11/40.

CBRN - 0. Yes. I got 0. I am wearing glasses, but the CBRN mask didn't have prescription yet so I couldn't see anything. Also, I just didn't know how to aim while wearing the mask.

Night fire - Now THIS time, I managed to find someone who has similar eyesight as me and borrowed his. But then when I pulled the trigger I only heard an empty click, despite the mag being full and the rifle on semi. I still don't know what went wrong. Anyhow, the sergeant in my lane (a very kind and patient lady, fortunately) fixed it and once I started firing, I managed to completely destroy my lane's Chemlite. I was the first to do so that day on the range, in fact.

I went out to range a bit before 0800 and returned a bit before 2100. It was the most goddamn exhausting and frustrating day I had so far since the graduation from Korean basic training.

edited 25th Feb '17 8:47:29 PM by dRoy

Thinking about it guns and ammo have got to be one of the few old style industries in the US that still use regular workers. It's difficult to outsource it and unlike with most remaining middle-skill industry you can't just have it be done by prisoners.

The US gets most of their guns from Europe now.

No we don't actually. The fire arms may be of designs from the region but they are all built in US factories. That includes HK USA and FN USA.

It's written into US law that firearms sold on the civilian market have to be built in the US, if memory serves.

Presumably it's the same thing with ammunition.

It's also probably a lot easier to just set up a factory in the US than to import it, what with the Gun Control Act and such.

No, it's not. It's written into law that any weapons officially adopted by the US armed forces have to be manufactured in the US (under license, if needs be), so that the nation will not be dependent upon foreign arms for national defense.

However, that does not apply to the civilian gun market, with either guns or ammo. There are some import restrictions, such as the Gun Control Act of 1968. That one was cracking down on "Saturday Night Specials," which are nebulously defined by scoring points on a checklist.

Curiously, the Walther PPK was barred from importation under GCA 68 because its grip length was too short, leading to both the introduction of the Walther PPKS, and domestic manufacture of Walther designs by Interarms of Alexandria, VA (now defunct), and later by Smith & Wesson.

There's also 922(r), with the number of US-made parts in imported guns.

That one applies to "assault weapons" assembled from demil kits or mismatched parts. But there are plenty of guns available in the US that were designed built entirely outside the US.

It's just that sometimes it's easier for a big foreign gunmaker to set up a factory in the US, rather than navigate the maze of import restrictions, trade barriers, tariffs, etc. Or, if they have to build a US factory to sell their single most popular product here anyway, they figure, why not go whole hog?

edited 26th Feb '17 7:33:34 AM by pwiegle

dRoy, your story with the three Senior NC Os jumping on you for not having eyepro, man, that sucks. I can't see that ever happening in the Air Force, if only because our firearms instructors are typically airmen or NC Os. Screw up on the range, and you have one Staff Sergeant giving you a stern talking to and a warning not to do it again.

How did the rangemaster even let you onto the firing line without eyepro?

Ah well, hopefully they issue you that stuff soon and get you squared away.

Regarding it being a buyer's market, reckon that means it's time to get into gun stocks again?

Er, the financial instruments also known as securities wherein the buyer gains a share of the company, not the shoulder thing that goes up.

Or ammo manufacturers, for that matter?

Maybe? I for one was pleased to see a 1911 from a company called Rock Island at the BX for $495 today, which is an outrageously good price for a 1911. A quick google suggests that the Rock Island 1911s are the very definition of Boring, but Practical.

Has anyone else seen TAOFLEDERMAUS's channel? He fires all sorts of weird homemade/custom shotgun rounds, and a lot of them are surprisingly effective. Probably the most impressive are the Glass Rounds here:

Yep familiar with them. We mentioned that channel specifically when describing how flexible shotguns can be in their loads.

Ah yeah, I actually have one of the Rock Island 1911s in 9mm. Got it on a deal for a little over 300.

It's definitely a little more rough around the edges compared to more well-known manufacturers, and you may need to try different brands of magazines for it to not double feed or fail to slide-lock (the Mec-Gar ones I have seem to work). Currently it's been a pain trying to find proper night sights for it.

I think it may be slightly less accurate than the Springfield Range Officer I tried, although I'd really have to go back to that one range that had one and rent it again. Most guns do outshoot their owners, after all.

Rock Island makes GI 1911's. They make 1911's the way they were meant to be- the AK's of the handgun world, loose and sloppy but consistently functional.

Is Rock Island another case like Springfield where a corporation took over the brand name of a WW 2-era company?

Yes, as they are made in the Philippines by Armscor.