Being misused for any kind of cleavage.: Absolute Cleavage

I stated another kind, hence making it clear I don't think those are the only kind.

I just didn't think a slinky halter top was classified as a shirt.

Not quite "absolute cleavage", but definitely a shirt, and not a halter top◊

Lots and lots of examples of cleavage-in-a-shirt... hard to find images of "cut down to bellybutton"... but that is easy, just an unbuttoned button-up...

edited 16th Jan '12 9:02:10 PM by rodneyAnonymous

Okay then, I stand corrected.

Anyway, what brought this up was the Cowboy Bebop entry, claiming Judy was an example of this trope. Should a shirt like this count as cleavage? She just has a standard buttoned up shirt, that just happens to be open (and clinging impossibly well).

edited 16th Jan '12 9:10:40 PM by DragonQuestZ

Yes, she is showing the trope. Her outfit has skin from the top of her breasts to her waist.

I like Deep Plunging Neckline best in terms of terminology, but I suspect that it would get horribly misused in exactly the same way. Is the problem actually the trope name or is it just that some people want to talk about the bust of their favorite character? I do support describing the clothing rather than the bust, though.

I still think we need something for the really epic in your face, pushed together cleavage that this seems to be getting misused as like in my earlier post.

And The Azumanga Daioh misuse [1]◊ hmm which seems to be a list of Ms Fan Service entries in what she shows off including showing off a lot of cleavage... hmm

edited 16th Jan '12 9:27:57 PM by Raso

I agree. If we focus the trope on the shape of the clothes and not the shape of the girl, then we might see less creepy gushing. It's why I really don't want cleavage in the title.

The AD misuse is just standard bikini. Not a trope. There's no special meaning to it aside from being a swimsuit.

edited 16th Jan '12 9:28:19 PM by shimaspawn

Often I think what we really need is regular tending and weeding of pages that tend to attract non-examples, but we don't really have a good way of ensuring this happens, alas, and the best tropers to do this kind of thing tend to be too busy

"Yes, she is showing the trope. Her outfit has skin from the top of her breasts to her waist."

I was going to argue, but then I decided to look up the word, and the pertinent definition simply means the holly between a woman's breasts. So that not only does count as an example, the trope actually requires going lower than the cleavage. Think that would help in deciding a name?

I think stopping focusing on cleavage would be the best thing for this trope. This trope can occur on males too. Males do not have cleavage. They can still have the same area of skin exposed which is the trope.

[1]◊[2]◊ this guy. (SNL did a skit on this too cant find a good image of it though.)

[3]◊ some girls just dont bother to zip up to create this.

Show Off The Chest But No Nipples?

edited 16th Jan '12 10:16:26 PM by Raso

Often I think what we really need is regular tending and weeding of pages that tend to attract non-examples, but we don't really have a good way of ensuring this happens, alas, and the best tropers to do this kind of thing tend to be too busy

The closest we're likely to get is the curators who watchlist a page. Although, that does give me an idea. Off to tech wishlist.

Navel Neckline?

I'm not so sure. One of the reasons being that there are a ton of male characters that would qualify, and (in my opinion) would basically discredit this as a trope outside of "people wear this". The fanservice is the entire point, but not every instance where a man wears a vest such as in the case of Aladdin◊ or Iron Fist, is fanservice. And characters like Natsu◊ from Fairy Tail are covered by Walking Shirtless Scene. Not to say that there aren't people who find Aladdin or Iron Fist sexy, but there isn't much that people wont find sexy.

I say that if you want to make a male version of this trope, make it a different trope.

edited 17th Jan '12 5:49:33 AM by KingZeal

Yes, Aladdin or Iron Fist aren't this trope because they're lacking the fanservice part. Just because we open the trope to male examples doesn't mean we open the to BAD male examples.

Since when do we have a consensus on "bad" examples?

Well, both of those characters don't just have the thin strip of skin visible. They aren't used for fanservice that's part of the trope definition. How are they examples?

Well, let me rewind a bit. My point was basically that making it unisex in order to remove cleavage means that this is becomes a fashion trope and not a fanservice one, which is a completely different trope from what it originally was. While that's fine, I think that would be a waste of an otherwise good trope which just needs some cleanup.

Since fanservice is subjective without certain loaded elements (cleavage, asses, etc.) this trope basically turns into "outfit that doesn't cover front".

No, it can still be a fanservice trope without cleavage in the name. Fashion tropes can still be fanservice tropes. They just attract less creepy gushing than fanservice tropes that focus on the boobs instead.

So what did you mean by "bad" examples? Whether or not you or I find Aladdin or Iron Fist attractive isn't the point. If they fit the trope, are they or are they not acceptable examples?

But they don't fit the trope even from strictly a costume point of view. Their costumes show too much of the chest, and neither character is intended as fanservice. I don't find many examples of characters intended for fanservice attractive, but I can still recognize that's what they're meant to be.

edited 17th Jan '12 10:03:42 AM by shimaspawn

Iron Fist is a case of Depending on the Artist, but in general, his costume leaves enough room to peek at the center of his chest and dragon tattoo.

But, this is kinda where I'm looking for clarification. Where is "too much of the chest" going to be for males? For women, it's going to be enough to show the breast, but obscure the nipple. What is going to be the factor for males?

The same criteria. It needs to show just a hint of pec, but obscure the nipple, or where the nipple should be as in the case of Aladdin. And the outfit must be intended to be designed to look that way for purposes of fanservice. That's part of the trope definition. We can throw bad examples out based on it.

edited 17th Jan '12 10:09:00 AM by shimaspawn

But, we can't assume creator intent in most cases. Characters like the Black Cat are obvious, because they're women, and cleavage is obviously a titillation factor. However, by deemphasizing the cleavage and making the trope unisex, we're basically saying that the chest itself is irrelevant, it's the the amount of skin it leaves uncovered.

Further, if "shows the chest but obscures the nipple" is the criteria, then Iron Fist absolutely qualifies.◊

edited 17th Jan '12 10:20:47 AM by KingZeal

He might count then, Depending on the Artist.

Men are easy enough to tell if they're designed for fanservice. There are ways to emphasize a male character as being attractive. If they're muscular, but not grossly so as he can be at times with attractive facial features, or perhaps bishonen types. It's pretty easy to tell when it's done.