Baten Kaitos

So back in the day I had a Game Cube for a tragically short period of time. I was still in high school and had no real money so I was forced to trade it in in order to get a PS 2 so i could play Metal Gear Solid 3.

Still, I have money nowadays and I plan on getting a used GCN. (I was gonna get a Wii but apparently this "Wii-U" thing is coming out so why waste the money) I was thinking over the games that I wanted to play for the Game Cube but never got around to and Baten Kaitos was one of the first titles to spring to mind. it was given a pretty positive review by a friend of mine but he didn't go into too much detail on the things I'm most interested in.

How is the story in the game? The world and characters? Does it have various towns and are those towns interesting?

I realize it has a sequel so same questions.

I've only played the original, but I've only ever had one gripe with the game: the voiceacting. Except for that, it's a fantastic game... but whether or not that's a dealbreaker is entirely on a person-by-person basis. :/

The story's pretty good, the world's definitely very interesting, the characters are passable and the towns are pretty varied. It's definitely one of the prettiest games on the Gamecube, the soundtrack is probably Sakuraba's best and the gameplay is sublime.

Basically, what I'm saying is that it's one of my favourite games for the Gamecube. I'm considering trying to emulate the sequel.

I consider the Vanillaware games (Odin Sphere, Muramasa, Grim Grimoire) to be the only ones that surpass the Baten Kaitos games in looks. Both of the Baten Kaitos games are well worth playing.

So I have my Game Cube and I have the first Baten Kaitos game.

I just thought I'd use this topic to jot down my thoughts as I go along. I have a few things I'm curious about so if anyone can helpme out, or if you just want to share your own thoughts, feel free.

1. The card-battling system is way different from anything I've ever done in a game. I know Final Fantasy is pretty generic in terms of gameplay so maybe I was just spoiled there but BK's gameplay offers so much variety that it's a bit overwhelming. Is it possible just to vaguely understand the mechanics and still beat the game or will I have to master it before I finish it?

2. So far the plot is pretty bare bones - evil empire, evil gods, so-on and so-forth. We got just got Lyude in the party and went to the third nation to talk to its queen. I like it so far and I expect ti io at least get mildly more interesting once we hear more about Kalas and Xelha's backstories. Well I'm guessing we learn more about Xelha because she seems rather fishy. "I was just standing by one day and overheard a plot for evilly doomy doom so I rushed off to stop it!" Uh-huh.

3. Kalas and Xelha are both my favorite characters at the moment. My least favorite is this game's answer to Wakka ie. Gibari.

4. Speaking of Xelha, I missed her Class 3 upgrade. Does anyone know if it's possible just to skip it? Like I can just find the upgrade magnus later on and go straight from Class 2 to 4?

5. The voice-acting is....not as bad as I had feared. I would give most of the cast a C+. There are definitely a few fail grades but that's for unimportant characters. No, what's wrong with the voice-acting is not the actors themselves it's the fact everyone sounds like they have fishbowls on their heads. FFXII's compressed audio is perfection compared to whatever happened to this game's speech.

The speech was apparently to simulate listening in from another world. Like through a cup held to the wall or something. It...didn't work very well.

Well they fixed it in Origins then?

So update time.

So I have Savyna in my group now and we're on our way to Mira. She's replaced Lyude as my third party member because Lyude and Gibari both annoy the shit out of me.

Plus you gotta love the brawler.

I must say though that, while I have no problem with this game's designs (I find them pleasantly colorful for the most part), our Evil Emperor looks completely retarded.◊

He looks even more ridiculous when rendered by the game's graphics.

Taking a wild guess here but I think he's gonna go the Emperor Gestabi or President Deling way so the fact he looks totally stupid doesn't bug me much.

The game hasn't been [i]too[/i] hard so far. I got stuck on a couple bosses but a few do-overs and re-arranging my deck solved that problem.

Most of my problems with enemies so far has been when I get dealt a bad hand again and again and again. I try to make an even mix of defensive and offensive cards and maybe you're not supposed to do that but I often get caught with a useless set of cards.

I'm not sure what to make of the Ashes or Charcoal or whatever cards. I'm guessing they have to do with Special Combos but I don't feel like tinkering with it to find out.

edited 8th Feb '12 7:33:24 AM by Nikkolas

Actually, that picture of Geldoblame? That's him in Origins when he's 20 years younger. I'm pretty sure this◊ is what you're going for.

Glad to see someone giving the games a try! They're my favorites, so I'd be glad to talk about them. I finished replaying both of them about a month ago, and just lent my copies to a friend. I haven't had the chance to talk to him about what he thinks, though. Point is, I'd be glad to help you out if you need it.

I should warn you - there'll be a point shortly after the disc change where you have to chase after a ship. Kalas will let you know that you won't be able to use blue flowers while you're there. Don't ignore him. The boss battle on that ship is infamously hard, so make sure to level a little before leaving. I'd recommend having everyone be at least level 25.

As for your comment about the plot...it might seem bare-bones now, but it gets better. WAY better. Trust me. ;) And I'd agree that the voices aren't quite as bad as people say, but they're still pretty bad. Especially Xelha. I really like her as a character, but it's kind of hard to take her seriously when she sounds like an old-school Disney princess. Still, Origins has really good voice acting, so that'll be nice if you end up playing it.

One last thing. Can we turn this into a general discussion thread at some point? I'd been meaning to make one, but I wasn't sure how many people actually want to talk about the games.

edited 8th Feb '12 7:11:47 PM by SapphireBlue

I'd be more than happy to let this thread be a general BK topic. :)

As for your recommendations, I've already been warned about the airship fight. I'll definitely try to be as prepared as I can be and maybe make a backup save file.

In regards to levels, the crew are about to head for the Empire and Kalas and Xelha are Level 26. Mizuti is 25.

I like the Great Mizuiti but I don't really feel this combination. I think I'll put Savyna back in.

If I have any issues or questions I'll be sure to post them here. Thanks for your offer.

The plot is definitely starting to kick into gear though. Kalas doesn't have a Magnus, the mystery of the missing End Magnus and who might have stolen it, what assembling the five End Magnus ultimately does since Malpercio is apparently dead and there's some white-winged fellow involved...

I am very intrigued and dying to learn more. Oh and let me just say that the arcade-style gameplay in the Shrine of Spirits was awesome!

The Labyrinth of Mirrors was less so. Fuck that.

edited 8th Feb '12 8:19:37 PM by Nikkolas

I'm going to have to agree with you about the Labrynth of Mirrors. Not fun.

Oh and I forgot to say that, while the music in this game is amazing, I really like the variety of boss themes. My favorite is the tune that plays whenever you fight a Guardian.

Though, do Giacomo and his crew have their own boss themes? IIRC he little fight with Gallon had some really....unique music.

edited 8th Feb '12 8:39:12 PM by Nikkolas

Yeah, the music is amazing. :) If you listen to game music at all, go get ahold of the soundtrack.

And yeah, they do have their own boss theme. Remember the music that played when you fought Giacomo back in Sadal Suud, really early in the game? It's that one. It's pretty different from the rest of the game's music, so it's not hard to remember.

Also, I don't believe there's anyone in the game named Gallon. Who are you talking abou...oh, do you mean Folon? If not, then who are you referring to?

Also...waitaminute. -checks dates on posts- You've gotten that far in two days? On a first playthrough? You're kidding, right? :O

edited 8th Feb '12 8:47:34 PM by SapphireBlue

so i just started this game up on emu a little while ago, i too, expected a lot worse from the voice acting

but i noticed the opening cinematic is a little...weird.

at first i thought it was the voices, but upon taking another look at it...the weirdness seems to stem from the characters...overacting? in it. particularly that lyude guy with the red hair.

edited 8th Feb '12 8:54:12 PM by Tarsen

Yeah, it is a bit weird. It honestly seems more like a trailer than an opening. Don't worry about having any of that in the actual game, though - there aren't any other rendered scenes like that.

Yeah I meant Folon,s orry.

And my current game time is 31:55:09. I've been playing the thing nearly nonstop. The fact I only got like four hours of sleep is probably why I called him Galon. >>

I think I'm done for tonight though. Can't really enjoy the game when you fall asleep every time your eyelids shut.

Oh my God, seriously? D: I mean, the game's great and all, but I'd say that qualifies as too much of a good thing. Don't you have other stuff you should be doing?

Anyway, sleep is good. You should probably do that.

Well I did in fact get a good night's rest.

And I also just beat Giacomo and them. It really wasn't as hard as I had feared. Kalas and Xelha were Level 27 and Savyna was 26.

Now I'll admit I restarted a couple times. First time because I bumbled in and didn't know what I was doing. It didn't take long for me to realize that my first priority was to take out Folon. He seemed to do the most damage at this point.

Unfortunately in my first couple of attempts Savyna kept getting the absolute worst hands. In fact, everyone got bad deals with almost no healing Magnus when i needed them.

I noticed that is the real difficulty of this game. If you keep getting shity cards at the wrong time, even if you are leveled enough to win the fight, you're gonna have problems.

It really isn't any different from a lot of other RP Gs though. I can't count the number of times a boss has been really hard my first time through and then the second time he just doesn't spam a move or uses weaker attacks more and he's a lot easier.

But yeah, I beat the Quirky Miniboss Squad (they fit that trope right?) and now I am sad. Giacomo was my favorite villain so far. And he actually had a pretty decent voice!

My final thoughts on the boss fight is that it's all about being overwhelmed Giacomo gets 2 turns in a row and then Folon and Ayme unload on you like crazy. If you can defend or heal, they will go down in no time due to really crappy durability. Even decent combos were causing something like 300-400 damage and the two cronies only had like 2000 HP or something.

Another new mystery appears with this Georg guy. At first I thought they were talking about the doctor from the beginning of the game. It seemed like they were building him up to be mysterious and plot relevant...

Ah well, off to Azha.

Oh and nice going game. "Lady Death" is Savyna who has a battle taunt that is something like "say hello to Lady Death"? I'm just shocked.

(I love this game)

edited 9th Feb '12 5:45:45 PM by Nikkolas

Georg? I think I remember who that is. He's important to the backstory at the very least.

Yeah, he is - he's Kalas' grandfather. That should've been mentioned by now.

Yeah he's apparently the adoptive grandfather of Kalas and the real father of Giacomo. (we just learned the second part)

I thought he might have some relation with the doctor who is treating Kalas at the start of the game. They mention how a really smart doctor like him being in a village like that is weird and IIRC his dialogue is just very shady and evasive when you ask him stuff.

edited 9th Feb '12 5:53:50 PM by Nikkolas

So i totally called it on Doctor Larikush being involved witH Georg. Some mechanic just told me he was old friends with him. They even asked "me" about it and I totally knew!

So kinda patted myself on the back with that.

Moving on, the fight with Giacome and crew was NOTHING compared to Geldoblame in his transformed state. That boss fight was an absolute nightmare. It might not have been so bad if he didn't immediately start off with an instant death move. Oh I have a couple Death resistant Magnus but not nearly enough. Savyna died again and again and again...

On something like the seventh or maybe eighth turn he attacked Xelha and she survived. He killed Savyna a few minutes later but having my entire party around for that length of time was all i needed. I finished him off with Kalas and Xelha.

And holy shit Melodia is the Kefka to Geldoblame's Gestahi. I did not see that one coming at all! The plot twist is quite good as everyone has said.

But now I must know, do my choices in that scene effect anything? If I tell Kalas to stop, will he actually stop? I have a hard time seeing that since it would seriously alter the game and JRP Gs don't seem to like that very much. I would gladly go back and re-do the boss and choose different responses but I am never doing that fuckign boss again.

edited 10th Feb '12 1:11:59 AM by Nikkolas

The plot is the plot, and the choices "you" make only effect how often those special attacks the main character uses pop up. Generally, the aim is to agree with your "partner" (or whatever the game calls the pairing; I forget it), but this one seems different, so I don't know which would be a better answer.

edited 10th Feb '12 1:27:02 AM by Sabbo

No, he's going to betray you regardless of what you say. He's already made up his mind, and you can't change it. The only time your choices have a significant effect on the plot is one particular instance in Origins, where choosing the wrong answer will get you a Non-Standard Game Over. If I said anything more about that situation, though, I'd have to post spoilers...so I'll shut up.

That said, I was waiting for you to get to that point. I wanted to see your reaction. :D

That much trouble with Octogeldoblame, huh? I don't recall it ever taking me more than two or three tries. Guess I got lucky.

edited 10th Feb '12 9:41:03 AM by SapphireBlue

Seems my instincts were right again. Xelha being the Queen of those witches we've heard mentioned all throughout the game is a really nice twist as well.

Unfortunately I can't focus on the plot right now. monsters are attacking the Imperial Capital and Fortress but they are easy as shit. What isn't easy is Fudroh. I barely even remember this foder and yet he is by far the hardest boss to date for me. Normally he deals about 1000 damage unless I get a really good defense combo in which case he only does like 800 damage. BUT THEN HE IMMEDIATELY GETS ANOTHER TURN TO CAUSE ANOTHER 1000 DAMAGE.

I tried using some strategery, giving Xelha all the healing Magnus and not even bothering defending with Lyude since it only saves him like 200 or so points of damage. It worked...on occasion. i must have done something like 5000 damage before he finally took one of them out.

Oh and about that, I wish I had more Death-curing items. I have only 2 100% chance Revives and the other 2 are only 60% rhance t revives.

Anyway I've lost so many times that I cracked and checked a FAQ. It seems I might, for the first time ever, be under-leveled. It recommends I be Level 38-40. Xelha is 39 so that's okay but Savyna is only 37 and poor frickin' Lude is only 33.

How was I supposed to know my dream team of Kalas, Xelha and Savyna would be rduced to 2 and I'd have to shove in a weak as hell replacement?

Sigh....

It looks like it's grinding time. I guess it's lucky that there are monsters everywhere int eh Fortress and they're also realy easy.

edited 11th Feb '12 12:54:53 PM by Nikkolas

Well I did it. Got everyone up to level 40 but, as the FAQ said, it ultimately ccame down to luck. Savyna didn't make it but Lyude survived with 72 HP and we picked up the win.

In more important news, Kalas is back. Thank God I have my preferred party back together. It was a rather sweet scene with him overpowering the evil in him, even if the whole situation was Nice Job Breaking It Heroes.

And we finally got a flashback to Fee and Georg. I've been waiting to learn more about that. Now they just need to clear up the whole "he supposedly died ten years ago but then was only really killed two years ago" stuff, along wit his story as a scientist for the Empire.

But for now, before going to look for how to get to Mizuti's place, I'm gonna take a break. All that grinding and relief at finally winning has taken a lot out of me.