Assuming the worst with writers when online.

Atticus: I used to be an asshole back in the Critique Club.

Not anymore though.

Now I just pop in to randomly scream about shit and advertise my story, because it's all I really do.

edited 21st Dec '11 5:21:44 PM by MrAHR

Read my stories!

Nr: I actually was more of trying to make a list for list's sake =^_^=;

...why was I trying to do that anyway?

oddly

I try to give critiques if I can, and try and critique stuff from a post or two prior before I post my own work. All I really avoid are fan fictions, and that's only because I'd be so lost reading it and I don't think the input of someone completely unfamiliar with a work the fic is based on is really all that valuable to them.

edited 21st Dec '11 5:34:33 PM by Schitzo

ALL CREATURE WILL DIE AND ALL THE THINGS WILL BE BROKEN. THAT'S THE LAW OF SAMURAI.

I try not to be an asshole about critique, usually. But on the other hand, I regard it as an article of faith that one should enlist such a person on the strength of their cruelty, and I'm told that I can be intimidatingly thorough.

Nous restons ici.

Critiquing is pretty awkward online, since you can't see body language, facial expression, and voice tone. So take a critique that says, "You need to work on characterization." While it may have been meant in a neutral tone, in the critiqued person's head it may be read in a condescending voice (that's probably not such a good example, but I think it illustrates the point).

Although, people can be nasty in a real life critique, too. But at least if you confront them or ask them why they think something's wrong, they can't really ignore you.

Whenever I try to give critique, I feel like I suck at it, mainly because I have problems seeing things to critique in other people's work, unless they just can't spell or put together a coherent sentence. Maybe I'm afraid they'll think I'm mean, so I unconsciously sugarcoat it before I can even think of anything to critique (I've had some pretty bad experiences with critiques in real life, and I figure it can only get worse on-line, what with the anonymity).

edited 22nd Dec '11 2:01:30 PM by BlackElephant

I'm an elephant. Rurr.

Writers have a frequent tendency toward anxiousness, taking things personally, and over-reaction. It's not just here. I've seen pro writers doing the same thing.

A brighter future for a darker age.

Definitely not a good example - I can't see why that's a problem. Something like "your characterization sucks and you should feel bad", on the other hand...

^ I wouldn't particularly mind if someone put their critique of my writing that way. Though I would ask them to elaborate.

edited 22nd Dec '11 2:17:39 PM by fanty

You think you wouldn't mind, but someone being what you perceive to be an asshole can be harder to take in than it first may appear to be.

Or maybe that's just me.

oddly

I never really understood why is it that so many other people view their work as an extension of themselves. The only way to insult me is to do it directly. If somebody told me "You fail as a writer and should just quit." then I would be quite upset, but if they told me "Your story was the most horrible thing I've read this year." then I would feel nothing. Though I would ask them to elaborate.

edited 22nd Dec '11 2:28:46 PM by fanty

I assume it's because people put effort in what they put out.

oddly

Insulting someone as a writer is still insulting them.

They're critizing something that you have been working on for hours.

^^ But they're not insulting YOU! They just don't like the stuff you write! Or they do like it but see plenty of bad mistakes in it. Or just want to help, without sugar-coating. That's not insults!

And if I've been working on something for hours, then I'd rather people said what they REALLY think.

edited 22nd Dec '11 2:47:48 PM by fanty

It's all in execution. Some people do see insulting the writing as an insult to the person. If your writing is bad, that means you wrote it badly, which means that you are a bad writer, etc. etc.

Plus, different people, different tolerances.

oddly

Frequent and chronic insulting someone's work, accentuating its negatives while missing out on it as a whole can be considered as an insult to the author.

edited 22nd Dec '11 2:49:19 PM by QQQQQ

That, pretty much. There are distinct differences between constructive criticism, opinion, and straight bashing; sometimes people do not understand them when making their commentaries.

edited 22nd Dec '11 2:52:56 PM by JHM

I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.

And quite often, commenters aren't afraid of hurting the author's feelings. And even some critiquers tend to be quite blunt.

The sort of critiques that people lash out on tend to be really quite mild, and often one-off, too.

^ I wish it were so. Quite often, I have to dig out the critique I get from under a mountain of sugar.

edited 22nd Dec '11 2:54:43 PM by fanty

For example, one time I submitted a draft, and while they read a few pages, they said "I'm not going to even bother reading this page, it's pointless" and read through the rest.

That insulted me the most, because it implied I wasn't even worth reading.

Or, perhaps I overreacted and this is a bad example? —shrugs—

edited 22nd Dec '11 2:54:15 PM by AtticusFinch

oddly

I don't see much difference between the two statements, to be honest. Sure, the second one is much nicer, but at the very least it implies the former. And while I agree there's no reason to get insulted over criticism of your work*

, it's only natural to feel shit when your work is trashed.

Yes.

I really don't see how harsh comments on your work imply insults. I often have some harsh comments to make on stuff I read, even when I love it in general, and religiously follow the author.

@ Atticus Finch: But that's just one work in particular. Don't see why it would imply that YOU are not worth reading.

edited 22nd Dec '11 2:59:56 PM by fanty

It's the amount of respect involved.

oddly

Like I said, people tend to get all upset or even lash out on critique that is often quite mild. The examples I've been making up and the one you cited were extremes.