General Star Wars Thread

Finn being force sensitiveis onething but I dont like it over come is chararter since it will implied he deflect because he is special unlike the loser of the first order

Exactly. The less special Finn is in his First Order life, the better. It's what he does with that freedom after he breaks away and gains full agency over his life that showcases the kind of man he is.

The saga of Daisy's interrogation concludes. The world wants answers.

The previous three parts.

edited 20th Feb '17 1:41:54 PM by Tuckerscreator

@Mad Skillz: Since when is Finn anyone's "bumbling sidekick" during TFA? He and Rey are co-leads for pretty much the entire movie.

He's still pretty bumbling. It doesn't make him a bad character— Luke bumbles through most of ANH and ESB, anytime he's not piloting a ship himself.

I tend to prefer the interpretation that every living thing is sensitive to the Force to some degree (it flows through all living beings, after all), but only a very select few are sensitive enough to be aware of it on a conscious level, and even fewer of those can actually wield it. I'm not sure where the canon stands on that, though.

edited 20th Feb '17 2:30:15 PM by Unsung

@Unsung: I think that pretty much is canon. Pablo Hidalgo stated on a twitter thread of his that everyone has (and uses) The Force, since the Force is life. You can disbelieve in the Force (like Han), but still have it. Some people (like the Jedi/Sith/what have you) are more attuned to the Force than most, but every living thing has the Force.

It's basically how Yoda describes it in ESB.

I was watching Dash Star's "How Episode IX will End" video and it seems to me from how they describe the Force and the likely ending to the trilogy, that Gray Jedi DO exist and that you CAN use things like Lightning without falling to the Dark Side. It's in what you use those powers for. Use Lightning for killing, and you're going to fall. Use it to burn the saber or gun out of someone's hands, and . . . nope. No fall. You left them alive, losing a hand at most. Your intent wasn't to kill them or make them suffer. It was to disarm them. And to engage in the gleeful murder of a non-living weapon aimed at somebody.

Hey, speaking of Yoda, something I've always sort of wondered... why did some people take issue with showing him actively fighting in the PT? I don't see this much anymore, but I remember a lot of people, once, saying they thought Yoda shouldn't have fought.

He was this wise old man and now he's suddenly a hyperactive kangaroo rat on steroids spinning about and swinging a saber? Yeah, it can be pretty Mood Whiplash inducing when you're not used to it. Now that we've had years to get used to it, it's no big deal.

Force Lightning specifically has always been a thorny issue-after they solidified the rules for the EU after the games in the 90's, Force lightning became emblematic of the dark side because of its nature-in order to use it, you had to genuinely want to inflict pain for the sake of inflicting pain, and the power functioned by inflicting excruciating pain until the target died. That left the writers in a sticky situation-anyone using it was, by definition, steeped in the Dark side, and there was no easy excuse-because it was a potent ability that required not just raw strength but focus and skill, anyone using it by definition was using it in lieu of a myriad of force powers that could be better used to disable or interrogate an enemy. That is-the only reason to use it was because you wanted your opponents to suffer a horrific death, no matter how much they did or did not deserve it.

Compare that to Electric Judgement, which could disable or kill an opponent in an instant and appears to require no greater knowledge or skill, and was better suited for a combat situation anyway. Using Force Lightning was an open admission that your mind had taken a walk off the map, and the easiest way to tell if someone was past the point of Temptation and willingly embracing the Dark side. Unfortunately, we never really got a satisfactory delineation, and this mix of clear directives and murky details is not drawing my vote of confidence for the new EU.

The new canon doesn't support light side users using Force lightning either.

Hell, Pablo Hidalgo was openly trashing the concept of "Grey Jedi" (aka people using the Dark Side for good) on his twitter a couple of weeks ago.

edited 20th Feb '17 5:30:14 PM by higherbrainpattern

Then he really should be attacking his own work for claiming that the Dark Side is a valid part of the Force. Because there is no sense in that if you're not incorporating Dark Side powers into the mix.

I wonder which of them put that little gem in Rebels because it's certainly there. The middle ground.

You're still tapping into the dark side. The dark side is like drug use. The more you do it, the harder you fall. Doesn't matter what your good intentions are.

I think people just really want to see a Yin-Yang bomb character/order 'cause s/he/they'd look cool.

I take issue with all Grey Jedi being painted with the brush of saying they tap into the Dark Side (not that you're saying that, but the term itself isn't well-defined), but I don't really have a problem with saying that the Dark Side itself corrupts. It's just the idea that passion and passivity are these compass points you commit to 1000% and there's no in between, that doesn't sit well with me. Neither extreme has much to recommend it. You don't need to be perfectly balanced between the two at all times, but you need to be able to accept some of both.

edited 20th Feb '17 6:11:11 PM by Unsung

The current cannon actually hasn't done a lot of portraying the Dark Side as The Corruption, at least not in comparison to the old EU. The idea that once you start using the dark side, you just turn unambiguously evil thus from the dark side making you that way - rather than one's own choices - isn't something we've seen much of thus far.

Rather, they've been sticking with the original idea that the dark side makes choosing those negative choices easier and more attractive, but still places the weight for those decisions on the dark siders themselves.

edited 20th Feb '17 8:36:38 PM by KnownUnknown

I mean, yes, people's choices in whether they choose the light or dark sides do matter, but once you choose the Dark Side, it does corrupt you and turning away from it is really difficult.

I still feel like the dark side is better seen as a result of destructive life choices rather than a cause.

Ironic, given my opinion of Kylo, but still.

That's not what I mean. The current canon hasn't been treating is as just the one choice between the dark side and the light, and once you choose the dark that's your destiny from then on. But rather than every thing a person does - even under the dark side - is up to them. Vader kills kids after falling? It's not the simply dark side making him do what he wouldn't otherwise. Ultimately, it's Anakin choosing to hide behind the dark side to justify his actions and do so. Just like, years later, he chooses to believe it's too late for him to turn back rather than face his guilt. Which, again, is more in line with how it was originally portrayed in the OT - the dark side as the symbolic nature of temptation and the easy way made corporeal and given life, rather than a more straightforward The Corruption.

A good example: Kylo Ren's whole arc is about a person who is religiously devoted to using the dark side, yet is still in need of soul searching to fully commit to it - and even so, in the end, doesn't overcome his issues with using it and fully harness his dark potential (in many ways, he is an intentional flip on the typical Jedi character type). In the more black and white definition of the dark side in the old EU, this wouldn't even be possible.

edited 20th Feb '17 10:17:13 PM by KnownUnknown

To me the Bendu is a perfect example of mastery through understanding. It's pretty clear he knows what the Light and Dark are and is perfectly aware how they function, allowing him to easily manipulate either side.

Mace Windu also used the dark side through using Vapaad, albeit through a method which allowed it to pass through him without touching him.

The problem seems to be dedication to dogma and the level of knowledge and skill, not necessarily what side you use.

edited 21st Feb '17 2:19:08 AM by TerminusEst

A New Hope.

I have to agree with Zephyr when he says that if you just have a "Gray Jedi" to have Jedi-as-The Punisher, ur doin it rong.

Well in the old EU, the Jedi in their first incarnation on Tython attempted to be balanced in the Force, without going too far towards dark or light.

The Han Solo Anthology movie is set for release in May 2018. And Thandie Newton got confirmed as a member of the cast!

Nice, nice!

But let me guess, is it gonna be delayed to December as of now?