Smoking Bans

"That's it. Don't like being unhealthy? There's plenty of things in the modern world that fuck with your health far worse, but you can't touch them because you use them. automobiles and fast food, take a bow. And those are just two. "

That's a load of BS. Smoking is the Top Cause of Preventable Death after Hypertension (High blood pressure) IN THE WORLD. This is made worse by the fact that smoking is a CAUSE OF HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE!

Smoking kills more than Sexually transmitted diseases, Malnutrition, Alcohol, Obesity, High Cholesterol, Traffic Collisions, Drug Abuse, Firearm Deaths, and Physical inactivity.

Smoking is the #1 preventable cause of death in the US. 438,000 deaths annually are smoking related. And to put it another way, 1 in 5 of all deaths in the US are due to cigarettes.

edited 20th Aug '12 11:26:15 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016

Also, Appeal to Worse Problems is a logical fallacy.

And yes, I will admit that I think it's gross and it smells horrible. I also don't like the fact that other people smoking can adversely affect MY health. If they were just slowly poisoning themselves, I wouldn't care nearly as much.

Okay, you win.

When other self-righteous do-gooders come after your energy drinks, your fast food and your deviant websites using the same logic, I'm just going to laugh. A lot.

Because Slippery Slope Fallacy may be...you know, a fallacy, but it holds up in court.

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~

I would like to point out that, unlike smoking, other people using any of those has no way to adversely affect me or other people in general.

Also, fuck the energy drinks, those taste like shit anyway.

Allow me to restate: If other people smoking did not and could not adversely affect MY (by which I mean, non smokers in general) health, I wouldn't really care, but it DOES, so I do care.

edited 20th Aug '12 11:36:31 PM by Balmung

@Balmung: when has "it doesn't hurt anyone else" stopped people from going after it anyway?

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~

Except Traffic Collisions. But that kills far fewer people than Smoking does and Driving isn't addictive.

edited 20th Aug '12 11:38:13 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016

There are always going to be people against any given thing. However, there's generally much more support for banning or restricting things that adversely affect OTHERS than things that do not.

@Braeburn: Are you figuring pollution into that? I'm fairly certain that smog is worse than secondhand smoke, especially since it's far more prevalent.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

Oh, I'd also love to see people drive less and carpool more, because we do seem to be culturally addicted to driving, which is neither clean nor safe, and yet we insist on doing it, even when safer and cleaner alternatives are available.

But here's the thing: driving and the dangers thereof are not the topic.

edited 20th Aug '12 11:44:39 PM by Balmung

@Balmung: I'm aware of that. but you are also missing the point; that there are better ways to live your life in the fashion that you would wish (that is, without smoke) without forcing other people to conform to what you feel is the "correct" type of behavior.

I get tired of people whining about freedom while at the same time trying to take it away from anyone who does something they don't like. Which is what this is about, whether the anti-smokers want to admit it or not.

I'm perfectly willing to make allowances for the safety and health of others...as long as they are willing to make allowances for my choices as well. That doesn't mean "you breathing smoke", it means "you asking me to put it out if it bothers you", and I will.

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~

Pretty sure there are tons of movements against these things, but they just aren't as public as anti-smoking movements and don't have as much evidence on their side*

. Energy drinks are a relatively recent thing as far as health concerns from things you consume go. Fast food...well, come on, there's Super Size Me (even despite its glaring flaws) for starters, and plenty of people call for these places to either become healthier or be abolished. The only reason they thrive is because of people too poor to afford much else since fast food is generally extremely cheap at the cost of nutrition (this is more symptomatic of other societal problems that need to be solved, though) and people who can afford other food but are too lazy to eat better (and these people need help eating healthier). As for deviant websites, they cannot be consumed and digested or enjoyed orally, so they have nothing to do with this.

edited 20th Aug '12 11:52:15 PM by 0dd1

Insert witty and clever quip here. My page, as the database hates my handle.

I thought that to. But Indoor air pollution from solid fuels and Unsafe water and poor sanitation kill far less than smoking.

Also, F*ck Energy Drinks.

edited 21st Aug '12 12:08:19 AM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016

Contrary to popular belief, not everyone believes in the freedom to do things that will very definitely without question affect your health adversely.

Insert witty and clever quip here. My page, as the database hates my handle.

I would not mind having all those things banned when there are 40+ years of studies proving them harmful. Before that, any comparisons between them and smoking is like "video games make people violent" and "existence of gravity".

Ask me if I give a fuck.

When did all the smokers of the world stand up and ask for your obnoxious ass to help?

Like it or not, Barkey, you're part of a society and your choices affect other people. The money spent every year to treat smoking related diseases could be far better spent doing other things.

Edit: You might say, "Fine then, don't treat us. We'll die hacking our lungs out and we'll like it." I'm sorry, but the same social contract that obligates you to be responsible for your choices obligates us to care for each other whether we like it or not.

edited 21st Aug '12 8:00:29 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Well SOMEONE appears to be in a bad mood.

First off, "Ask me if I give a fuck."

Clearly you do. Otherwise you would have never responded to my comment.

Secondly, "When did all the smokers of the world stand up and ask for your obnoxious ass to help?"

What part of my comment indicated I was trying to to help smokers? I posted that comment to point out, that @Drunk Scriblerian's claim that there are "plenty of things in the modern world that fuck with your health far worse (than smoking)," was false. I then used facts to back my claim up.

I'm not sure what part of my message you interpreted as me lecturing smokers about there "evil ways", but all I did was point out that someone had said something inaccurate and then I corrected him.

So in short, chill out.

edited 21st Aug '12 8:51:18 AM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016

It's just obnoxious, I do what I do responsibly in a way that doesn't affect others, but I see no real incentive to be courteous about smoking if it isn't going to change anything.

"It's just obnoxious, I do what I do responsibly in a way that doesn't affect others, but I see no real incentive to be courteous about smoking if it isn't going to change anything."

This isn't about you. And you still didn't answer my question. What did I do that was obnoxious?

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016

Barkey, if you're asking people to get off your back and let you smoke in peace, I'm afraid that it is a very deliberate part of the anti-smoking agenda to get it culturally stigmatized to the point where "casual" smokers do feel a lot of social pressure to stop. Making it uncool and unacceptable is necessary to getting it eradicated as much as possible. That's why Prohibition failed — because they tried to legislate away something that everyone still wanted to do.

edited 21st Aug '12 9:48:42 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

^

That just doesn't work terribly well with me. Being harassed or pressured pretty much just makes me dig my heels in and give people the finger.

^^

Pretty much the entire attitude of what Fighteer just made a post about.

Oh, it was my "attitude".

Thank god, I thought you were angry at me for a good reason.

But I do have a question. If being harassed or pressured doesn't cause you to quit smoking, is there anything that will?

edited 21st Aug '12 10:17:55 AM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016

Me making the conscious decision to do so, because I decide that I want to.

Nobody can force me to quit, and the harder people try, the more stubborn I'll get. The more people resort to social pressure and obnoxious tactics, the more determined I'll be not to prove them right. The day I decide I want to quit to pick up some extra time on my fitness test is the day that I decide it's worth it.

Being invasive and trying to force change just makes me dig my heels in. I've got massive authority issues as it is, but regular people who aren't in a position of authority trying to force me to do anything, especially using passive aggressive means, only makes my defensiveness worse.

It's your body. We can't force you to quit, nor can we force you to want to quit. But as I said, there are millions of people whose lives we can save by stopping them from smoking now, and I won't put your personal convenience ahead of their well-being.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

You good sir, deserve a medal.

Also, 200th post. We've managed to agree on squat.

edited 21st Aug '12 12:11:35 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016