A New Story Idea, And No Idea How To Proceed

G'dee everyone, first proper forum topic!

Anywho. A story idea popped into my head earlier today and as the title says I have no idea how to proceed, either to do it as a fanfic or an original piece, or let it sit on the backburner for a while.

The general plot involves Ludwig van Beethoven beingsent through time to defeat aliens who want to invade earth in the 2200's, teaming up with Johann Sebastian Bach and Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart on the way. They do battle against the aliens, giant war machines, dinosaurs and a possessed Joseph Hayden in the process. Each of them has reality-bending powers and weaponry which hark back to their musical instruments and knowledge of sound, though Beethoven might be the most powerful of the bunch because he's deaf.

I have some more ideas, but anyway! Any suggestions? (also, if this is in the wrong spot, please feel free to move it. Sorry...!)

edited 14th Nov '11 5:38:51 PM by JoaquinDawley

"...oh darn."

Their musical notes resonate like a tuning fork onto reality, and that is why they will beat the baddies. An opera house could be a good setting for this sort. Who might be sending the aleins?

The aliens are sending themselves, as they invade earth in the 2200's but are swiftly defeated when the sub-reality echo of the Ninth Symphony premiere shatters their fleet as it arrives in orbit. Hence why they're going through time in the first place: they want to destroy Beethoven and the influences on his work, but they didn't count on him being... well, Beethoven.

Bach has a cello which fires a beam of sound like a Death Laser (tm) when he plays it.

...I get the feeling this is a reeeeally out-there story concept.

"...oh darn."

Does LVB go forward in time, or do the aliens go back in time, or do they both time travel to the (near) present? This sounds great. I have a music degree, oddly enough, so I'd be glad to help brainstorm.

According to Wikipedia, JSB played organ, viola, and violin—no cello. Also according to Wikipedia, the cello was just becoming standardized by Bach's time. I propose a mini Death Star fitted with a battle organ and ranks of milspec pipes.

I have a similar idea dealing with literary figures ("Bring up the can[n]ons!"), but that's still on a rear burner. So the idea isn't so very "out-there" as far as I'm concerned.

Under World. It rocks!

Bach definitely should play the organ. Writing for, playing, and fixing organs was what he was most known for during his own time, unlike Mozart and Beethoven who were well-known for composing. He was also a decent swordsman, and was said to carry his sword everywhere. Even got into a swordfight with some of his students once.

Mozart could play the piano, but with Beethoven also being a famous pianist, we're getting into a lot of keyboard instruments here. Mozart was, however, also well-known for playing the violin, and performed on the violin for royalty sometime around the age of 3 or 4.

The thing that interests me the most about this is that Haydn and Mozart were actually really good friends, and Hadyn was also Beethoven's teacher. I sense there could be a lot of good, juicy conflict if Haydn's a bad guy.*

edited 13th Nov '11 11:02:18 PM by SeventySeven

I'm working on it.

That's reminiscent of the climax of Read Or Die.

The only thing I have trouble with here is the dinosaurs. Just doesn't seem to fit.

Thanks for the ideas so far!

Ralph Crown - Thanks for the offer, mate, I'll gladly accept help. As for the travel it's a bit of both; the aliens are trying to destroy Lv B directly because them trying to get rid of his influences (Mozart and Haydn among them) did very little to stem his musical creations, and so by attacking him directly they're rocketing backwards and forwards through time, both seperately and at the same time. The details are still pretty fuzzy, though, so nothing's set in stone...

Seventy Seven - ...bugger, I'd forgotten about the Toccata and Fugue in D Minor; thanks for reminding me. As for the potential conflict between Haydn and Beethoven/Mozart... you read my mind. :D

nrjxll - but Everything's Better With Dinosaurs. Especially dinosaurs who spit out the opening bars of the Fifth Symphony when they roar.

"...oh darn."

Well, music is nothing without timing. Someone needs to have a metronome that can affect the passage of time. Somewhere there has to be an anti-9th symphony vibe from the premiere of Stravinsky's Rite of Spring. Some insidious plot has to be implemented through those little plaster busts of famous composers. And PDQ Bach needs a shout out somewhere.

Under World. It rocks!

My point is that I feel that just slamming Rule of Cool elements with no rhyme or reason to them together doesn't really produce a good work. Everything else here actually fits together in a fairly consistent fashion, but the dinosaurs just seem to be thrown in there gratuitously.

Maybe the aliens are dinosaurs....

Under World. It rocks!

...how about this: the "aliens" are dinosaurs from a parallel universe version of earth, who tried to avoid extinction by jumping into our universe. In the process, they discover that the Ninth Symphony premiere is what triggered the Cretaceous extinction in their universe, and they're scattered far further forward in time than anticipated.

So they're never explicitly called aliens, but it's a natural assumption by the reader after the descriptions of what they look like.

As for metronomes, what if Haydn has a metronone latched onto his back which allows the aliens to control him?

edited 14th Nov '11 4:12:40 PM by JoaquinDawley

"...oh darn."

Just darting away from the villains for a moment, I was thinking that Beethoven could be introduced in 1822, just before he was commissioned by the Philharmonic Society and completed the Ninth Symphony; that means the events end up spurring him to complete it.

"...oh darn."

Bach should be the old, grumpy cool guy who's constantly grumbling about these young 'uns*

never giving him any respect (it also mirrors how he felt about his employers not respecting him enough, as well as his frustrations at never being considered the best composer of his day, unlike Beethoven and Mozart).

Yeah, Stravinsky's Rite of Spring would be cool. But if you want a complete breakdown of music you could go with a composer like Schoenberg with his emancipation of tonality, or even John Cage - some of his pieces arguably have not structure at all.

Would you use pieces by the composers as their themes? Toccata and Fugue would be an excellent choice for Bach doing something badass. Beethoven wrote plenty of awesome stuff himself. If Hadyn's going to be a villian, it's too bad that he never really wrote very much dark music himself. However, his clock symphony would fit well with the time travel motif, and with the idea of a metronome as well.

Actually, what medium are you planning on doing this in? I'd say it's gotta be something where the music can be heard, such as a tv show. Ooh, you could use a work of music per episode, kinda like Princess Tutu. And are you thinking of bringing any other composers or famous musicians into this?

I'm working on it.

Well, the idea so far is to write it as a novel or a series of stories, though I could easily do it as a movie script or something similar... though mind you, if I was feeling reeeally ambitious, I'd do it as an animation. With Bach, I think you're reading my mind... STOP IT-but yeah. That's the plan for his character, to have him as the slightly grumpy badass of the group, who ends up turning into a musical samurai by the end of it.

As for music, I'm still not sure about the themes everyone would have, though I'm thinking Bach's would be the "Little" Fugue. Haydn could probably work with the Clockwork Symphony, but because he's not a willing villain it could be more disturbing to have him associated with one of his more lighter pieces... though I'm not as familiar with Haydn as the others, so I might leave him till later.

Other musicians? Not sure, though there's a lot of possibility... the story could always be like Gantz, where "new" musicians are brought in to replace those who can't keep going. If you get my drift. *ahem*

Though I'm not sure about including others at this stage, because of the character development I had in mind.

"...oh darn."

What can I say, I guess I'm psychic. But Bach's my favorite composer of all time. And I kinda like learning about the history of the great composers because it makes them all seem more human.*

And this has got to be done as an animation. I agree with you, in that I think it would be the best medium for this. A book might be good too, but I still think it's best if the music will be showcased.

I like the Little Fugue for Bach. Seems very in-character for him. Of course, it might be cool to switch up the theme for the composers as the situation depends. Also, Bach loved writing vocal music, so I'm sure he'd love some of that in there. The Crucifixus from the Mass in B Minor comes to mind, though not necessarily as a theme for Back. That piece would make a great sad piece for any point. Or perhaps Mozart's Lacrimosa from the Requiem. But I think the Crucifixus has more gravitas. What would you have as a theme for Mozart, or Beethoven? Mozart seems like he needs something happy and energetic (good thing he wrote so much of that kind of stuff). Beethoven... he needs something complex. Not sure what theme I'd give him.

Hadyn was a jokester. A lot of his music has a good sense of humor to it. So I could definitely see him being a creepy villain with the Soundtrack Dissonance and all. Another good choice for him might be his Joke Quartet.

Hmm, I was actually thinking of them meeting more composers just sort of as they happen to travel to this time period and run into Mendelssohn one day,*

and then another time period another day and they run into Stravinsky the next. I've never read/seen Gantz. But having read the trope page I think I'm getting a good idea.

Btw, how were you planning on having them time travel, exactly? Do they go to a new time/place each day and fight whatever aliens/monsters/dinosaurs they come across before returning home, or are they stuck traveling through time, trying to return to their own time line. For that matter, what exactly is their motivation. Why are the composers agreeing to fight the aliens or whatever? What are their goals?

Edit: I'm totally excited by this now. I really want to help out with this if I can. As I said before, I'm a musician as well, so I'm happy to help out in any way I can.

edited 15th Nov '11 7:38:40 PM by SeventySeven

I'm working on it.

To be honest I'm not entirely sure what Mozart's theme would be, but I'm leaning towards using something from one of his later symphonies. Beethoven, though, I was thinking the Symphony No. 7, 2nd movement. Because I like The King's Speech.

...anyway!

There's going to be a few different dinosaur characters, each one with their own little schemes and goals, but all of them have the same basic motive. The dinosaurs themselves are from a technologically-advanced civilisation on a parallel universe version of earth, which exists at the end of the Cretaceous period.

The reason they're going after these composers is because, in their universe, the K-T extinction (the one which wiped out the dinosaurs) is triggered by the premiere of the Ninth Symphony in our universe - it either causes the asteroid to strike earth or triggers a massive volcanic eruption, something along those lines - and after some investigation they discover that Beethoven was the one who wrote it. They go after Bach and Mozart because they were influences on Beethoven, and so if they can't get rid of the man himself they'll try and get rid of the people who formed the inspiration for his work that led to the Ninth.

As for the composers teaming up, they're initially quite hostile towards one-another until Beethoven works out who they are, and they begrudgingly agree to work together to try and figure out what's going on. Now, they can follow the dinosaurs through time because they were disguising their advanced technology (eg. weapons, time-travel devices, and other goodies) as instruments in an effort to get close and assassinate the three of them. So while the "regular" technology and machines the dinosaurs use look fairly alien and are near-impossible to use by humans, the instruments they're disguised inside means the composers have some serious equipment to use. And they're good musicians, too.

Ultimately the goal of the composers is just to set things back to normal. This doesn't happen, though, because working together ends up giving them the spark to complete their most famous or renowned works (Bach's Art of the Fugue, Mozart's Requiem Mass, and the titular Ninth for Beethoven) and this rubs off on anyone else that they meet in their mishaps across the time-space continuum.

I was thinking that with Mozart, Beethoven vaguely hints to him his last work will be a commission, and it'll be premiered in public by his wife after he dies. Cue the commission for the Mass, and he ends up making Costanze promise to premiere it in public if anything happens to him. Beethoven, meanwhile, gets that commission from the London Philharmonic Society to actually finish the Ninth.

As for the dinosaurs... I was thinking they could be Tyrannosaurids. Because Tyrannosaurids are awesome. Especially the big ones.

"...oh darn."

I like The Kings Speech too. That movement is Crowning Music of Awesome there. I think I might've picked the String Quartet in C-sharp Minor, Op. 131, 1st movement or the 1st movement of Beethoven's Pathetique Sonata for him. As for Mozart, have you heard the last movement of his Jupiter Symphony?*

Hmm, though, I don't know how much of an influence Bach and Mozart were on Beethoven. Bach had been forgotten by Beethoven's time. His works were no longer played so Beethoven never knew his works. Mozart was still popular and being played when Beethoven was starting out. However, the bigger influence on Beethoven would've been Haydn since he took lessons from him. Now, Mozart and Hadyn did influence each other, so there could've been some crossover to Beethoven in that way. Bach was even mostly forgotten by Mozart's time. He did have some influence though, as Mozart was mentored by Johann Christian Bach, one of Bach's younger sons. Mozart also received access to a few of Bach's manuscripts from a patron late in his career. This inspired Mozart to focus more on fugal writing and counterpoint, and the fourth movement of the above symphony is supposed to be a result of this. Bach and Hadyn never knew each other, and again Bach was pretty much forgotten by the time Hadyn came along. Also, by the time of Hadyn and Mozart, the style had changed greatly from what it was in the Baroque. So while you can say that Bach and Mozart might've influenced Beethoven, in think the link is indirect at best, especially in the case of Bach. Beethoven would not know who Bach was in a direct meeting up, and to Mozart, Bach would just be some dead composer that wrote amazing fugues. Bach didn't gain the reputation he has now until the time of Mendelssohn, still 50 years or so removed from Beethoven.

Otherwise, yeah, I agree with the rest of this. I might debate with you about Bach's greatest work (I'd pick his Mass in B Minor, which held a combination of all his greatest techniques until this point, and which was also his last major work).

I agree. Tyrranosaurids are awesome.

edited 16th Nov '11 7:12:42 AM by SeventySeven

I'm working on it.

Really? I was under the impression that Bach's re-evaluation occured during Beethoven's time, or at least during Beethoven's later years; at the very least, Beethoven could have had access to Bach's works to study. He did go through a period where he studied the Baroque masters and I remember reading somewhere that he spoke very highly of the man. And Mendelssohn was eighteen when Beethoven died, so the revival of Bach couldn't have been far away.

Mozart and Beethoven, though, that's a bit easier. Beethoven was an admirer of his and even moved to Vienna in 1787 when he was seventeen to study, and was probably hoping that he could study under Mozart. But then his mother got sick and he never got a chance to meet him (there's a few stories that say he -did- in fact meet Amadeus, but I doubt it).

Edit: Also, they lived relatively close together: Bach died in 1750, Mozart was born in 1755, Beethoven in 1770, and Mozart died in 1791.

edited 16th Nov '11 3:10:06 PM by JoaquinDawley

"...oh darn."

I remember reading and discussing in my music history class that Beethoven never knew Bach. But I could be wrong as that was 2 years ago. At any rate, it's something worth looking up.

But yes, I knew the above about Beethoven and Mozart. It's a shame they never got to meet up in real life. I would've been curious to know the result of it. lol

I'm working on it.

So then, what if Brahms is attacked in his twenties and he ends up rescuing Beethoven in 1822, and he's the one who kicks off the entire plot?

"...oh darn."

Ooh, Brahms? Didn't see that one coming. Granted, I like Brahms alot. His stuff's fun to play.*

Sounds cool to me, I guess. How would he save Beethoven? And would that drag in the whole business with the Schumann's as well? Hell, Clara could even be The Chick.

And since Brahms buddy-buddy with so many other composers, that could actually bring a lot of other people in.

Composer request: Any way you could fit in the Russian Five, Tchaikovsky and Stravinsky? I love those guys. And there's always great conflict among that group. Tchaikovsky could even be working for the aliens, like Hadyn maybe?

edited 18th Nov '11 7:27:48 AM by SeventySeven

I'm working on it.

How about Prokofiev?

"...oh darn."

Fan of him, too.

I'm working on it.