Ongoing European Debt Crisis

Octo is right. Merkel is really moderate compared to some of her party members, who either demand that there won't be another aid package given to Greece or want deeper cuts made by the greece government. After reading the article about the anti-german carricatures, I found an interesting article in the leading German weekly news magazine DER SPIEGEL:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,817887,00.html

Sry link doesnt work, the title is: We have become the new villain.

edited 27th Feb '12 11:36:22 AM by Zarastro

Remove the spaces and the link works:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,817887,00.html

Edit: huh, looks like the forum keeps adding those spaces next to the commas. Weird.

edited 27th Feb '12 12:06:42 PM by Psyclone

That particular problem (the one with links that have commas in them) is one that we've discussed before; IIRC, it was caused by some glitch in the forum software that was pretty deep in there - and very difficult or impossible to fix.

There's an easy way around it, though. Use a URL shortening service like bit.ly or tinyURL and paste that link into your Pot Hole.

Here's a bit.ly shortened link to that page: http://bit.ly/AxjuSz. (I had the link in the "as-is" markup ([= *text* =]) to show you what a shortened URL looks like in case you don't know, so that's why it doesn't show up as an outside link.)

So, [[http://bit.ly/AxjuSz An article about how Germany is getting criticism from Southern Europe]] -> An article about how Germany is getting criticism from Southern Europe

edited 27th Feb '12 12:14:15 PM by BestOf

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.

The main problem is that Greek people get called lazy and feckless despite having the longest working hours in Europe. The main villain in this badly acted farce is the Greek government who borrowed money and lied to everyone about it.

Dutch Lesbian

It seems that this isn't the first time that Greece's weak economy has threatened to destabilise a monetary union

Dutch Lesbian

Please refrain from double-posting. If you have the latest post in a thread and want to add something, add it to the bottom of your last post. Double-post only to bump a thread or to split really long posts.

Double-posting isn't a huge problem, but it's a mild annoyance when it clutters up a thread, and since it's so easy to avoid, I've taken it upon myself to remind people to avoid it.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.

Not only did Greece torpedo the Latin Monetary Union, but for several decades in the 19th century it already was under the financial administration of the "guaranty powers" (UK, France, Russia) because it couldn't pay its debts. For much the same reasons as nowadays: Nobody paid their taxes, and the administration was very creative in fudging the numbers. And already back then everybody was very lenient with Greece, mostly because British aristocracy had a boner for the Greek antique.

edited 28th Feb '12 5:11:06 AM by Octo

Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic

In other words nothing's changed — the problems Greece has to deal with are cultural and long-term...

Trying to change that will mean a change in the Greek Identity — and that will take years...and the Greeks will probably snap (violently) before then.

Keep Rolling On

The House of Commons is to debate whether the decision of most EU countries to agree to a treaty on greater fiscal unity is legal. Conservative MP Bill Cash proposed the discussion, asking the government whether it intended to take the issue to the European Court of Justice.

Okay, I wasn't expecting Her Majesty's Britannic Government to issue this legal challenge but what would happen if we took it all the way to the ECJ? Would it finish the euro off because the Germans would try to cut their losses or what?

Dutch Lesbian

It... depends on the ECJ. I think it has been independent enough in its history, so chances are good that it would rule in the UK's favour. Really, who the fuck constructed the Eurozone so that it would be integral part of the EU? It's stupid. It's also a giant hurdle for Greece to exit the Euro, because purely legally it would have to leave the EU (and then probably rejoin) in order to do so. Anyway, I think what would happen then, if the ECJ decides in the UK's favour, is that there would be an EU reform to the effect of seperating the Eurozone from the EU, and then all future efforts would be by the Eurozone, not the EU. Unfortunately it wouldn't be the doom of the Euro.

Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic

The European Union. After all, the Euro is an EU Project...

Keep Rolling On

"Moody's Investors Service considers Greece to have defaulted per its default definitions. The announcement comes despite Athens reaching a deal with private creditors for a bond exchange that will shave €107 billion from its €350 billion debt."

You can't even write racist abuse in excrement on somebody's car without the politically correct brigade jumping down your throat!

Fiscal Policy and Growth in Europe. Pretty good correlation between government spending and GDP growth/decline.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Now that is interesting. And, as far as many Conservatives are concerned, counter-intuitive.

The British government in its budget is saying that Eurozone growth is going to be -0.3% which is worrying because the British need the Eurozone to grow as its our biggest export market.

EU piles pressure on Hungary with court action

The Relationship between Hungary and the EU could be become so strained that the EU could stop lending money to Hungary and this could cause Hungary to default.

The gap between northern and southern euro zone economies will continue to widen for another three years, European Central Bank policymaker Ewald Nowotny said on Tuesday, adding that rising oil prices were now the bloc's main inflationary threat.

Dutch Lesbian

If they want the oil prices to stop rising, we need to figure out how to stop Iran and Israel from going to war with each other. That aside, increased global consumption will tend to raise prices no matter what other circumstances pertain.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

European countries are expected to implement tough austerity measures amid the debt crisis. But Germany isn't setting a very good example. SPIEGEL has learned that Berlin failed to reach its own austerity goals in 2011. And despite pressuring its neighbors to save, Germany is behind this year too.

Wheres that facepalm.jpeg when you need it. Its going to be interesting now that Germany has failed to meet austerity targets while at the same time expecting the Greeks and the Spanish and the Portuguese and the Italians to meet their targets. Its a repeat of the last Stability and Fiscal pact in which the Germans failed to meet and therefore the pact had to go.

Dutch Lesbian

Why am I not surprised?

Don't forget to add www.sadtrombone.com to facepalm.jpg

edited 21st Mar '12 4:56:59 PM by Psyclone

I'm interested to hear Octo's perspective on this, as our resident Teuton.

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.

GDP fell 0.2% in the final quarter of last year to put Ireland officially into recession, alongside Belgium, the Netherlands, Italy, Portugal and Greece

edit:European Central Bank President Mario Draghi has said the worst of the eurozone crisis is over.

Btw. this is what Mario Draghi looks like◊

edited 22nd Mar '12 12:51:37 PM by whaleofyournightmare

Dutch Lesbian

That was funny.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.

"Deutsch" is in fact not derived from Teutonic as some think (though the etymology in both cases is derived from "of the people").

Well, remember, I'm actually no supporter of Merkel. This is hypocritical on two levels - on the European level, that's obvious, nothing more needs to be said, but also on the domestic level: Creating all the big debt caps and stuff, but then not holding to them, basically leaving that to successive governments (probably of the opposite ideological side...). It's also short-sighted: Making new debts so as to not anger the electorate, but leaving repaying them to future governments.

So yeah, what can I say? It's just bad.

Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic

Agree completely. This sort of shit is why people get angry at Germany for being domineering and not pulling their weight. No one wants the German people to suffer. They've done nothing to deserve it and corruption isn't endemic in the culture. But the country does have to make sacrifices, just as everyone else is doing, and it's ardently hypocritical to try and sink Greece for not doing the same things they're not doing.

It's unfair and ultimately hurts everyone.

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.