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People behind the times. Proud, ancient, noble, more than a little stuck up. These are the guys that use bows when there are muskets at hand, armour themselves in nothing more advanced than thick hides, etc.

Mura: -flips the bird to veterinary science with one hand and Euclidean geometry with the other-

I still have issues with -Mancy being used for anything but -Speaks with. Even if we are making stuff up, I liked the idea of use no abusing -mancy.

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We already established that, Vyc, which is why he fixed it.

Mura: -flips the bird to veterinary science with one hand and Euclidean geometry with the other-

Titans as traditionalists. Their cultures are isolated.

Perfect starting place.

Actually, yeah, that would work great. They'd be old-fashioned, unaccustomed to newer technology, yet naturally skilled enough to pull it off.

I think a more shall we say visceral approach would be nice, though. Less high culture and nobility and more South America and the Pacific Islands before colonisation.

edited 10th Mar '12 7:32:14 PM by Exelixi

Mura: -flips the bird to veterinary science with one hand and Euclidean geometry with the other-

Tameirth is also isolated (granted more by chance than choice), and would be a good place to have traditionalist elements.

Also since we brought up traditionalists their has been a question that has been bugging me*

.

We've said before this setting basically has no issues with sexual, or gender oppression. But, Why? What factor exists in this world and not ours, or not as heavily.

Also does this mean no oppressive or anti-x characters, or just not large societal ideas towards it, and then again why is that?

I'm sure we can think up a great reason, but I think we do need a reason.

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Ogre was the most progressive Titan in recent memory, and he didn't set a good example for the rest of them.

I never cared for this attitude myself.

I like it, I just want to know why and how. Very similar to my issue with Flora and Fauna.

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Homophobia, for one, exists mostly because of Abrahamic religions, which don't exist in the setting. Sexism is a more Doylist matter to a point, which boils down to "we don't want to alienate women. Or feminist men. So, basically, any decent human being."

Racism most certainly does exist, after a fashion. If you can hate someone of the same species as you with different colored skin or someone with fur or tusks, which are you going to go for? Blanket hatred is an issue of alienism- this thing is different from me, therefore I am unprepared to deal with it, therefore I am uncomfortable, therefore I dislike this thing. Er, that kinda got away from me. When there are multiple species competing for resources, it's going to take precidence over tribes of the same species, from the stone age (or closest equivalent) onward.

Now, one would think it would be more intense with the species that are very different, but this isn't necessarily the ase. A lot of what makes us uncomfortable is seeing part of ourselves in something fundamentally alien- it's the reason why Slenderman is creepier than a giant bat (or, on a larger scale, why horror monsters are always almost human). Therefore, racism between, say, Dwarves and Brownies would be more prevalent than racism between Duergar and Orremna.

Hot damn I love when anthropology comes in handy.

But yeah, for most of the hot-button issues, it isn't that we need a reason to not have them, it's that there simply is no reason for them to exist (and I don't particularly encourage contriving reasons to have them, I'm looking at you, God).

edited 10th Mar '12 8:25:13 PM by Exelixi

Mura: -flips the bird to veterinary science with one hand and Euclidean geometry with the other-

Who's to say such creeds couldn't rear up somewhere in our world?

It wouldn't be unrealistic.

But it's also not remotely necessary.

I'll say this once. No.

Mura: -flips the bird to veterinary science with one hand and Euclidean geometry with the other-

Feh.

That arguments really only works when applied to western nations. Eastern nations have had both rich histories of trading offs between acceptance and oppression for years before any sort of western influence reached them.

Japan being the one that most comes to mind, less than 5% of their population is of the middle-eastern religions, and the major religions: Shintoist and Buddhist*

each not having any real issues with homosexuality (actually I'm pretty sure a few Shintoist gods had relations that could be called homosexual, but don't quote me there.).

Yet homophobia exists but for entirely different reasons, mostly due to with the social mindset of conformity. Even when it was accepted, it was only accepted among nobles and samurai and this was years before the country had any major exposure to Christians.

It be easy to create an in-universe justification, but out-right saying it's because the middle-eastern religions didn't exist is just as if not more controversial*

than allowing homo-phobia to exist.

Also female-oppression: This we can justify with the amount of Goddesses we have. Some females or creatures that take on female forms have been gods since before the original-humanoids-left caves. Meaning no-culture or person would have much of an excuse to persecute women.

edited 10th Mar '12 9:10:05 PM by Vyctorian

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Japan is a case study in How Isolation Fucks Up A Nation 101, and really hasn't been important enough in world history to consider as a major example of anything. Buddhism has no issue with homosexuality though, and I don't think Hinduism does (though I'm not absolutely certain.)

Bear in mind, also, this is mostly Western-centric, like most fantasy.

edited 10th Mar '12 9:14:25 PM by Exelixi

Mura: -flips the bird to veterinary science with one hand and Euclidean geometry with the other-

We already have a lot of eastern elements and some elements that have more in common with typical Sci-Fi*

than we do fantasy western or other wise.

edited 10th Mar '12 9:20:04 PM by Vyctorian

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My point about Japan not mattering much stands.

Anyway, what do we have in common with sci-fi? You mean the steam punk stuff?

Mura: -flips the bird to veterinary science with one hand and Euclidean geometry with the other-

and the robots, airships, floating cities, Lazer Magic guns, but mostly the way we've approach culture is more common among those who write sci fi than fantasy. Though most common among alternate earth*

writers.

edited 10th Mar '12 9:32:32 PM by Vyctorian

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All staples of the Punk domain as well. Suppose it's all about how you look at it.

Mura: -flips the bird to veterinary science with one hand and Euclidean geometry with the other-

I more often see Punk classified as a Sci Fi sub-genre than fantasy.

With the exception of Dungeon Punk which is just Clark's Third Law flipped on it's head in a steamy sewer vent and abused for fun and profit :3

edited 10th Mar '12 9:56:18 PM by Vyctorian

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Hm. . There is a name for that, I think. Sufficiently Analyzed Magic or something.

edited 10th Mar '12 10:01:19 PM by Exelixi

Mura: -flips the bird to veterinary science with one hand and Euclidean geometry with the other-

So, back to these Traditionalists before I get bored and start writing up things that have been stewing in my head for days.

That's kinda why I asked that question. We first need to establish traditions and traditional views before we make traditionalists.

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"Hot damn I love when anthropology comes in handy."

Never though I'd heard THAT.

Here's my views on the topic, anyway:

First of all, the very fact that each race has the potential for *multiple cultures* means that prejudices *of any sort* are going to exist, somewhere. That said, I'd rather not explore any too deeply. Too much realism can ruin a fantasy(see: DC Comics.)

Overall, I'd say that most societies in this world:

• Don't care much about sexual preferences,
• Do have perceived roles for genders but are willing to accept exceptions, and
• Definitely have racial prejudices, but mostly toward those who clearly aren't of their species.

And that's my 2 cents on that.

Aye. I'd say conservatism here would have more to do with stuff like. . .

• Class systems and/or codes of honour

• Old-fashioned interpretations of the gods and dogma

• Magic focused in mysticism, with a very hermetic, shamanic or Druidic aesthetic. Wizardry would be unknown to these beings.

• Old weaponry and armour. How old exactly depends. Could be bows and bronze and coats-of-plate, could be slings and obsidian and thick leathers from megafauna, or any permutation thereof.

I think we should establish exactly how far behind we want these things. Use concepts and ideas, not dates.

Mura: -flips the bird to veterinary science with one hand and Euclidean geometry with the other-