To all RPGers and familar ilk: What is "Earth" Damage?

Wind Water and Earth have been popping up in Final Fantasy for a while, but I think they became actual regular elements alongside Ice, Fire, and Thunder after FFX.

I know they're a prominent part of the elemental wheel in FFXI and XIV, and they have some spells in XII. Can't quit remember if XIII also featured them.

Here's how often each element has appeared in the main FF games (I-XIV and X-2)

Fire, Ice, and Lightning are in all main games (15 games), Holy/Light is in all games except XIII (14 games), Water has appeared in all games since V, and was added in the DS remakes of III and IV (11 games, 13 including DS), Earth and Wind have appeared in all games since V except for X and X-2, and where also added into the DS remakes (9 games, 11 with DS), Darkness is an element in IV, IX, XI, XII, and XIV (5 games), Poison is an element in II, V, VI, VII, and VIII (5 games), and while most games have gravity attacks, it's only considered an element in VII and VIII (2 games).

Wind(Aero) and Earth(Quake) were in III originally... Just to point it out...

Quake was in Final Fantasy I and IV, as well... Basically, Earth was in 12 of the Final Fantasy games(all but II, X, and X-2) prior to DS remakes...

Edit: And depending on how one looks at blue magic, earth-based magic may be represented in X and X-2 as well...

edited 5th Nov '11 10:45:11 PM by Swish

To be honest, it's a little hard to find info on this, so Earth and Wind might have been elements in the NES version of III and Earth an element in IV. But Earth was definitly not an element in I, Quake was just an instant kill spell. (Also, I know for sure Wind and Water weren't elements in the original IV, they were only in the DS version)

And Earth isn't really an element in X and X-2. There's a couple enemy attacks that are earth based, but there's no actual earth element gameplay-wise.

Edit: I checked and Earth was definitely not an element in the non-DS versions of IV. Quake and Titan in those versions did non-elemental damage.

Edit: I also got better info on Wind's status in III. I was right, Wind was only made an element in the DS remake. In the NES version Aero and Aeroga did Ice damage with extra damage to flying enemies.

edited 5th Nov '11 11:03:27 PM by KuroBaraHime

My thoughts are that it only makes sense for 'Earth' to be merely a category of magic, and not a damage type as well.

Thinking about 'realistic' damage types, a probably incomplete list could be:

• Physical(possible blunt/edged/piercing subcategories)
• Cold
• Heat/fire
• Electrical
• Acid/corrosive
• Poison/chemical/biological(separate categories may be better)
• Radiation

edited 5th Nov '11 11:01:31 PM by Maralinga

I think RPG elements were more about the source of damage than the type of damage most of the time.

In World Of Warcraft, Earthquake does physical damage. Which makes it kind of weird. Of course, there's also a spell called Earth Shock that does nature damage. Whatever nature damage is supposed be.

Here's how I analyze this. Basically, all people consist of the four (or more) elements in varying amounts, and magic spells that use elemental attacks are basically attacking the person's elements directly. So let's say you hit someone with an "Earth" spell - what you are doing is dealing damage to the portion of that person's being that is made up of "Air". Since flying type critters are mostly made up of Air, Earth is particularly effective against them.

Another idea with a similar principle is to think of the various elements as magical attacks based on the Four Temperaments. So for example, using fire magic on someone isn't actually hitting them with fire - its hitting them with a physical manifestation of the choleric temperament, or Anger. So you are damaging the person's psyche with a blast of Anger in the form of a ball of fire. Or, if you use a different element, it goes something like this:

• Water, being the phlegmatic, or the Calm emotion, manifests itself usually as ice, which makes sense as getting frozen in place in a decent way to calm down.
• Air, being the Sanguine or Happy emotion, manifests itself as lightning, which if you think about it a bit is a bombastic, loud, and exciting attack.
• And finally, Earth represents melancholy, and manifests itself usually as getting trapped in mud, turned to stone, or otherwise buried. Melancholy characters also feel buried and trapped in lives that seem to have no meaning.

I believe that the idea is that Nature damage stands in opposition to Arcane damage, and the two are opposites because of the source of their power - one gains power from the natural order of things, the other draws power from the magic wielder bending reality to its will. So they arrive at the same destination, but using different paths.

edited 6th Nov '11 12:41:48 AM by MyGodItsFullofStars

I don't know about other games, but in both Pokemon and Final Fantasy, Ground/Earth attacks are typically ineffective against flying opponents, not super-effective.

But aren't the "Gravity" spells basically meant to be "Earth" spells? Or are they different? Because Gravita wrecks flying types.

The Gravity spells in the Final Fantasy are, well, Gravity spells. They're typically a spell for the Dimensional Mage, also known as the Time Mage. I think it's supposed to be a representation of the force of time/space rather than the earth. The Earth elemental spells are typically the Quake and Titan spells, which usually do not affect flying monsters(or floating party members).

The only game I can think of where Wind enemies are weak to Earth is Golden Sun (which did in fact mean a lot of flying monsters were weak to earthquakes). And Gravity in Final Fantasy always does percentage damage. The only game I can think of where it's good against fliers is Crystal Chronicles, and there it didn't do more damage, it brought them to the ground so they were easier to hit.

edited 6th Nov '11 12:50:18 AM by KuroBaraHime

There's lots of games where Earth opposes Air - Fire Emblem has elemental affinities (sort of badges characters wear whose only purpose is to add an additional level of difficulty by forcing you to not attack an enemy using a character with the wrong affinity for the job) with these oppositions (but no "earth" based magic, just thunder, wind, and fire. Yes, wind is different from thunder), Arcanum Of Steamworks And Magick Obscura had Earth magicians basically be immune to any of the Wind magician spells (because wind "attack" spells were all pushback based, but high level Earth magic made you immune to pushback), Avatar The Last Airbender had this distinction as well (Earth was Aang's hardest bending style to master and some of his hardest battles were up against Earth benders, all because he was naturally good at Air bending which opposes earth bending, while Fire came to Aang very easily because Air fans the flames).

Anyways, if you look for it, you can find more examples, that's just a few off the top of my head.

edited 6th Nov '11 1:01:12 AM by MyGodItsFullofStars

Certainly there's a lot of fiction where Earth and Wind are opposites. And those Arcanum and Avatar examples make sense because they're basically dealing with mages using opposite styles. But there's relatively few examples of games where Wind monster are weak to Earth, because most Wind monsters fly, and if they're flying they can't really be hit by earthquakes, and are hence usually made immune or resistant to Earth magic unless a distinction is made between Wind and Flying. Like Final Fantasy which doesn't actually give monsters elements, every monster is just given a set weaknesses and strengths based on what they are (plants are usually weak to fire, insects and reptiles are weak to ice, etc.).

And that Fire Emblem example is just character affinities based on personalities. There's no actual Earth-based magic (and I don't think the fact that Wind and Thunder are different weird so much as that certain Wind spells are basically ice).

edited 6th Nov '11 1:12:45 AM by KuroBaraHime

I'm looking up Elemental Rock-Paper-Scissors for examples...

Air opposes Earth - 2 Examples
Air > Earth - 3 Examples
Air < Earth - 4 Examples

Overall, it seems pretty even.

edited 6th Nov '11 1:19:24 AM by Meophist

Final Fantasy XI again with this game from this guy! has Wind trumphing Earth. Wind cuts the rocks or something like that.

For what it's worth, Ice would trumph Wind (Ice stops the wind) and Earth would top Lightning (the earth grounds the lightning).

edited 6th Nov '11 1:23:42 AM by MrDolomite

Xenogears kind of had both Opposing Elements and rock paper scissors in the form of Earth > Fire > Air > Water > Earth, if I remember correctly.

I left out where Earth and Air had no particular interaction with each other.

I've forgotten to put in that in Pokemon, Flying basically beats Ground.

@Meophist: I just added the Quest 64 example.

Long story short, opposite elements do double damage, their sister elements takes 75% damage, they themselves take half, and the last element does neutral damage.

It does seem like Earth beats Air about as much as its opposite.

It makes sense, though.

Earth can cause a mountain to stop a powerful Wind, but over time winds chip through earth.

Also, Wind can often avoid Earthen attacks, giving them a huge advantage. This is prevalent in some of the Yu Gi Oh games where Air kills Earth instantly, regardless of stats.(it's as stupid as it sounds, although strategic)

Alternatively, since Lightning is part of Wind sometimes, Earth practically negates it by being unbreakable. Also, there's the obvious Stones kicking birds' asses. To say the least, they were meant to oppose eachother.

Frankly, I'm just surprised somebody remembers that game so well.

I pimped out the actual Quest 64 page, and added its Wild Mass Guessing section. What can I say, I love the game. I even own both of its spinoffs. And downloaded the Japanese version(which, unfortunately, I can't buy online anymore than I can download it. You know, laws and all)

Very, very slowly. Of all the forms of geological erosion, wind is by far the slowest. If you want elements that represent effective forms of erosion, you'd want plant (roots dissolve tiny impressions, move into them, and grow, cracking them open,) and ice (water gets into tiny cracks, and freezes and expands, cracking them open.)

I suppose that for some originality, you could construct a complex elemental RPS web where every element is strong to two others and weak to two others.

edited 6th Nov '11 6:51:01 AM by Desertopa

I think the only good way to make elemental weakness and strengths make a good amount of sense is make enemies weak to certain elements based on what they are, as opposed to having Elemental Rock-Paper-Scissors. That's what most FF and Tales games do.