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annebeeche watching down on us from by the long tidal river Since: Nov, 2010
watching down on us
#1: Oct 29th 2011 at 11:40:39 PM

Some pointers for y'all who've never completed a work of fiction before and would like to change that:

This is not advice on how to write a good story. This is only advice on how to stop being such a worrywart and start actually writing something, and eventually get it finished. Quality is not of importance here. If you are already writing regularly and can trust yourself to start and finish a novel, you are already ready to start worrying about quality and this advice is probably not for you.

  • Don't dismiss your bad ideas. At this point in the game, when you have nothing written and finished, anything should be up for grabs. All that matters is that you like that idea enough to write at least 10,000 words of full plot about it. If it's a wish-fulfillment Mary Sue story about how you gain magical powers, get the guy and save the world, so be it. If it's about a random person being trapped inside a World of Warcraft server, so be it. If it's about a guy taking a shit, so be it. All that matters is that you get a finished story down. It doesn't have to be the paragon of creativity, and you certainly don't need an audience.
    • Granted, if you do decide to share your finished bad-idea story with the rest of the world, don't be surprised if other people think it's crap, and don't take it personally either. Learn to laugh about your own fiction!

  • Start building a habit. Marathon runners do not start their training by running 10 consecutive miles—no, they started with a mile, then slowly building it up to two miles, then three, and so on. The same goes for training yourself in any activity, including writing.

    So today, tell yourself, "Today, I want to write 100 words." and do that. 100 words is incredibly easy, it's a baby step. As of the last fullstop, this post is already 317 words, though you'll want to put those into prose fiction rather than forum-posting. It's incredibly easy. Anybody can do it. And that's the idea.

    Then the next day, tell yourself, "Yesterday, I was very successful in writing 100 words. I bet I can do that again today." and write 100 more words. Keep on doing this until you are comfortable with writing 100 words a day, and then bump it up to 200, then 500, and so on all the way up to until you are able to write 1667 words a day for 30 days, which is exactly what you need to do for Nanorimo.
    • The words that fill your daily quota can be anything, so long as it is literature of some kind that you are writing out of your own volition. Not homework, not work, not letters, not email, not forum posts, just creative writing between you and your pen/typewriter/wordprocessor. It doesn't even have to be the same story (though once you have made writing in general a habit, you'll want to start making writing the same story a habit after that.)
  • It takes roughly 21 days to make a habit.

  • Don't edit! Do not edit your story until you have finished writing it and all of its parts from beginning to end. Face it, your first draft is crap, and your first draft will always be crap. That's the definition of a first draft. If you can write a first draft that is actually publication quality, especially if you are the target audience of this list of advice, you must be some kind of writing god.

    But yeah, the reason why you have to refrain from editing your writing as you write is because that is a very easy way for people to start fidget around and not actually get anything done. I know I have this problem myself. Plus, you are worrying about quality at a stage when quality is not something you should concerned about—see my first pointer about accepting your bad ideas.

    So just dumb your draft raw and unedited. You have a small quota of words to fill in, don't worry about how nice it sounds or how scientifically/historically plausible or internally consistent everything is, do that when the story is finished or you will never stop and move on. Besides, in the midst of all the cheese and crap you may find a few little gems that you'll be glad you never scrapped or edited in premature edit-monster mode. Which is good! If you keep doing this, your drafts in the future will gradually come to contain more gems and less cheese or crap. Someday that will happen, but that day is not this day (especially if you've scarcely finished anything before!), so don't worry about the gems/crap ratio for now.

  • Do Nanorimo! Since it's just about the end of October it happens to be very appropriate that I bring this up. As they claim on their site multiple times, the goal of nanorimo is to get people to stop twiddling their thumbs and write using a daunting deadline, which is the same thing I'm trying to help you to do with this post. Granted, nanorimo is writing 1667 words a day, every day for the entire month of November, so if you haven't started writing regularly, 1667 words a day can be a lot. You won't lose anything, but you will gain something by attempting nanorimo, even if you fail to hit the 50,000 words by the end of november. If you don't want to do nanorimo and would rather start with the 100 words a day baby steps, that's fine too, as long as you start doing something more than what you're doing now.

  • Don't aim for a series. A lot of aspiring writers really want to write a series of novels for some reason, rather than a single standalone novel or even a short story. Nah, aim small before you aim big. If you haven't even written a single novel, why on earth do you think you will be able to write a closed series of novels? And if you haven't even written a single short story, what makes you think you will be able to write a novel? So start with short stories, and then work your way up to the big stuff once you can trust yourself to be able to start and finish a short story.

The biggest reason why people have a hard time starting writing, keeping writing and then finishing something is because they haven't learned to just relax and be comfortable with their own writing. So stop worrying, and just write! :)

[This is apparently what 1100 words look like.]

edited 29th Oct '11 11:50:30 PM by annebeeche

Banned entirely for telling FE that he was being rude and not contributing to the discussion. I shall watch down from the goon heavens.
Morven Nemesis from Seattle, WA, USA Since: Jan, 2001
Nemesis
#2: Oct 29th 2011 at 11:47:48 PM

[awesome]

A brighter future for a darker age.
annebeeche watching down on us from by the long tidal river Since: Nov, 2010
watching down on us
#3: Oct 29th 2011 at 11:48:40 PM

Why, thank you!

-humble bow-

Banned entirely for telling FE that he was being rude and not contributing to the discussion. I shall watch down from the goon heavens.
feotakahari Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer from Looking out at the city Since: Sep, 2009
Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer
#4: Oct 30th 2011 at 12:16:00 AM

I don't really get this "don't edit" thing a lot of people bring up. Each time I reread something, I become more bored with it and have a harder time paying attention to it. If I'm supposed to correct it, I'm less likely to notice any given thing I need to correct. This means that if I don't at least flag awkward or incorrect wording, and I forget that it was awkward or incorrect, I have a chance of missing it on subsequent rereading. As long as I'm flagging it so as not to miss it, why not just go ahead and edit it?

edited 30th Oct '11 12:16:13 AM by feotakahari

That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful
Night The future of warfare in UC. from Jaburo Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
The future of warfare in UC.
#5: Oct 30th 2011 at 12:23:47 AM

I must admit a different fascination with the bizarre "don't edit"ism.

It seems to assume one will never reach a state of satisfaction with the work. That is...somewhat bizarre.

Nous restons ici.
Morven Nemesis from Seattle, WA, USA Since: Jan, 2001
Nemesis
#6: Oct 30th 2011 at 12:24:14 AM

Well, you aren't supposed to be rereading it! You're supposed to be charging ahead, not looking back except when you have to.

If you really need to, write parenthetical notes about STUFF YOU NEED TO FIX to go back and do later, but don't go back and dink with the stuff you wrote while first-drafting.

A brighter future for a darker age.
Morven Nemesis from Seattle, WA, USA Since: Jan, 2001
Nemesis
#7: Oct 30th 2011 at 12:25:34 AM

@Night: it's a technique to deal with a very common way of not getting anywhere with one's writing, which is to tinker endlessly rather than making progress. There are a lot of would-be authors who never get further than endlessly rewriting and throwing out Chapter One.

If you don't suffer from this particular mode of procrastination, feel free to ignore such advice.

edited 30th Oct '11 12:26:08 AM by Morven

A brighter future for a darker age.
Night The future of warfare in UC. from Jaburo Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
The future of warfare in UC.
#8: Oct 30th 2011 at 12:27:11 AM

That's...not really editing though. It's redrafting, rewriting. Editing is cleanup and touchup work.

There's a definition problem here somewhere. Possibly on my end.

Nous restons ici.
Morven Nemesis from Seattle, WA, USA Since: Jan, 2001
Nemesis
#9: Oct 30th 2011 at 12:29:44 AM

Nonetheless, you get the point, right? If behavior X becomes a mode of procrastination for a writer, they should avoid that behavior.

A brighter future for a darker age.
Night The future of warfare in UC. from Jaburo Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
The future of warfare in UC.
#10: Oct 30th 2011 at 12:31:37 AM

I do, but I think it's being communicated in a way that might be counterproductive.

Then again I've never really been afflicted with that problem (in my entire writing history, I've thrown out Chapter 1 exactly once) so I have no idea if we're dealing with a slippery slope problem that slides from editing to rewriting.

Nous restons ici.
feotakahari Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer from Looking out at the city Since: Sep, 2009
Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer
#11: Oct 30th 2011 at 12:32:24 AM

If we're defining our terms that way, I guess I agree, but I'd like to add something I've advised in the past: if your options are to rewrite the story from an earlier part, force it back on track via a Deus ex Machina, or let it go Off the Rails, that last is often the most entertaining and least cliched choice.

Then again, if you are throwing out a chapter, chapter 1 is the best one to throw out. I've thrown out a bad chapter 1 for stories where, if I hadn't done so, I would have had to throw out the entire story at the end.

edited 30th Oct '11 12:35:48 AM by feotakahari

That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful
Madrugada Zzzzzzzzzz Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
#12: Oct 30th 2011 at 12:33:38 AM

Editing and writing use different ways of thinking. The key to making progress in writing is to find a way to drop into the 'writing' way of thinking and stay there. Switching over to 'editing' thinking takes you out of 'writing' thinking.

If you can make that switch at will, in both directions, then it's not a problem.

edited 30th Oct '11 12:34:14 AM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
alethiophile Shadowed Philosopher from Ëa Since: Nov, 2009
Shadowed Philosopher
#13: Oct 30th 2011 at 12:35:46 AM

I always edit as I write, and occasionally while rereading what I write to get me back into the frame of mind to continue that bit of writing. Never had a problem with it.

One thing I note: I had some past writing experience, but never could just stick with it, until I started writing a fanfic at the beginning of this summer. Having reader feedback and people who expect you to post something is very good for your will to continue.

Shinigan (Naruto fanfic)
Morven Nemesis from Seattle, WA, USA Since: Jan, 2001
Nemesis
#14: Oct 30th 2011 at 12:37:00 AM

Especially since too many writers are extremely over-critical and self-hating about their own work and are thus prone to a negative feedback loop about what they just wrote.

edited 30th Oct '11 12:37:22 AM by Morven

A brighter future for a darker age.
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#15: Oct 30th 2011 at 1:43:03 AM

My first impressions:

I agree that the "don't edit" message is poorly worded, and would make far more sense as "don't rewrite".

I strongly disagree with the "Do NaNoWriMo!" message. It can be helpful, but it is definitely not for everyone and thus isn't as essential as you suggest.

Finally,

I guess I agree, but I'd like to add something I've advised in the past: if your options are to rewrite the story from an earlier part, force it back on track via a Deus ex Machina, or let it go Off the Rails, that last is often the most entertaining and least cliched choice.

This is virtually the Holy Words of Writing to me. Honestly, if you have to seriously alter the events of your work to keep "the story" on track, I'd advise you to think very carefully about the quality of that story.

Morven Nemesis from Seattle, WA, USA Since: Jan, 2001
Nemesis
#16: Oct 30th 2011 at 3:37:09 AM

@nrjxll: No, I think "don't edit" should stay in there. "Don't rewrite" should also be in there, but many writers will divert into procrastination using editing as a gateway drug. And, of course, any such guide has to acknowledge there will be exceptions, and "don't edit" isn't an absolute hard-and-fast but more of a hint; it's not saying "don't fix a spelling mistake", it's saying "don't fuss about what you've written, keep writing." When you're in first-draft writing mode, you should not do anything that will interrupt the flow or sidetrack you into Not Writing again.

While Na No Wri Mo doesn't work for everyone, I think anyone who has trouble getting anywhere with their writing should give it, or a similar exercise, a try. It won't necessarily work for you, but I'd say most of the people it won't work for know that that's not their problem.

A brighter future for a darker age.
TheEmeraldDragon Author in waiting Since: Feb, 2011
Author in waiting
#17: Oct 30th 2011 at 3:47:57 AM

A lot of people say "Don't Edit," but honestly I almost always go back and rewrite my opening after I'm a little more familiar with the characters and have the story a bit more fleshed out. But then, I only do this once, and will move on with the story afterwards until it is time for the big edit.

I am a nobody. Nobody is perfect. Therefore, I am perfect.
Morven Nemesis from Seattle, WA, USA Since: Jan, 2001
Nemesis
#18: Oct 30th 2011 at 3:50:16 AM

Which is fine — it's not diverting you into a state of Not Writing. In a sense, you could think of it as your leaving a placeholder opening scene and then going and writing a new one — you continue Writing.

A brighter future for a darker age.
MrAHR Ahr river from ಠ_ಠ Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ahr river
#19: Oct 30th 2011 at 7:27:05 AM

I can't write short stories. —sigh—

It's because I write what I would want to read, which happens to be long stories.

Maybe that's why I suck at pacing.

Read my stories!
BetsyandtheFiveAvengers Since: Feb, 2011
#20: Oct 30th 2011 at 7:30:01 AM

I am going to argue that editing and rewriting are not un-or counter productive. They are key parts of the process.

If you choose to set aside a Tuesday to look over the things you wrote on Sunday and Monday, you are still getting work done, even if the word count isn't adding up.

edited 30th Oct '11 7:31:10 AM by BetsyandtheFiveAvengers

annebeeche watching down on us from by the long tidal river Since: Nov, 2010
watching down on us
#21: Oct 30th 2011 at 8:26:00 AM

Especially since too many writers are extremely over-critical and self-hating about their own work and are thus prone to a negative feedback loop about what they just wrote.

Exactly. The main reason why a lot of people don't make a habit of actually writing is because they are not comfortable with their own writing. I'm not saying you shouldn't be critical or want to edit it, I'm just saying you should be comfortable with it enough to charge on and keep going until you reach the end. Constantly editing as you write does not up your word count any faster, and it does not make you comfortable with your first draft writing.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't edit at all, just save it for when you're finished putting out the first draft so that it doesn't get in the way.

And Madrugada is right, editing and writing are two different "modes". If you're doing one, you are not doing the other. Unless you are already capable of switching between editing and writing with no issues, you should be doing writing only now, and then editing later.

The most important thing is that you make writing, that is, upping your word count, separate from editing, if you cannot handle doing both at the same time.

[up] Setting aside time to edit, and time to write is another perfectly good approach! I like what you're doing. If it gets your word count up and finishes drafts, keep doing what you're doing.

edited 30th Oct '11 8:28:57 AM by annebeeche

Banned entirely for telling FE that he was being rude and not contributing to the discussion. I shall watch down from the goon heavens.
MrAHR Ahr river from ಠ_ಠ Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ahr river
#22: Oct 30th 2011 at 8:26:28 AM

—hand raise—

What if the negative feedback is reinforced by others?

Read my stories!
annebeeche watching down on us from by the long tidal river Since: Nov, 2010
watching down on us
#23: Oct 30th 2011 at 8:35:02 AM

[up] Long story short, don't take it personally.

Even if someone says something completely unproductive like "Your writing is a festering pile of crap and I can't believe anyone had the audacity to bring this abomination to life" don't take it personally. If you cannot do that, you have personal problems besides Not Writing and I'm afraid there's not much I can do to help you in that department besides give you some person-to-person advice and encouragement.

Besides, at the point in the game where you have not made writing regularly a habit, you should not be worrying about what other people think about your writing. That is worrying about quality. It's not going to help you feel more comfortable, and it will distract you from doing the most important thing to do, which is to write.

I can't write short stories. —sigh—

It's because I write what I would want to read, which happens to be long stories.

Then write short long stories? :Þ

If you feel that you can only be comfortable writing long stories, so be it, but just be aware that 50,000 words is a far more daunting task than 10,000 words.

edited 30th Oct '11 8:37:52 AM by annebeeche

Banned entirely for telling FE that he was being rude and not contributing to the discussion. I shall watch down from the goon heavens.
USAF713 I changed accounts. from the United States Since: Sep, 2010
I changed accounts.
#24: Oct 30th 2011 at 8:43:07 AM

I can't write short stories. —sigh—

It's because I write what I would want to read, which happens to be long stories.

I am now known as Flyboy.
MrAHR Ahr river from ಠ_ಠ Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ahr river
#25: Oct 30th 2011 at 8:44:25 AM

I wrote 50,000 words, I get to edit now. Fun for me.

The daunting task for me is writing 50k about ten more times.

edited 30th Oct '11 8:46:02 AM by MrAHR

Read my stories!

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