50% of Greek debt absolved

Berlesconi drove Italy into the ditch, then proceeded to dig the ditch deeper.

Berlesconi is as corrupt as they come. In many ways.

You never explained why.

edited 3rd Nov '11 7:33:49 PM by FFShinra

^ It's the predictions of where their debts are going. At their present expenditures vs their current economic condition it would take a literal economic miracle as in Italy suddenly gains a massive hiring boom and record breaking GDP growth rates to stave off a default.

Unfortunately, that's all they have. (Greece on the other hand doesn't even have that.)

...can't they forgive Italy's debt, too...?

I am now known as Flyboy.

I have an idea!!!

Lets forgive EVERYONES debt!!!

Gets clubbed to death by economists*

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.

Don't they have to? If you're Italy, and you see this deal Greece is getting... and you're in a better position to fuck everything up, don't you demand the same(if not better) deal?

I mean, it's almost exactly how all the US bank bailouts happened...

edited 3rd Nov '11 7:52:41 PM by Swish

Italy actually has assets to put up for those loans don't they? Compared to Greece that is...

Perhaps... But why bother offering them as collateral? Greece got a free pass, and again, Italy can supposedly fuck up the EU worse than Greece ever could.

Why should Italy take a deal that's worse than what Greece received in such a situation? Just seems silly to me...

Well, apparently not, if they're that screwed, as Tom says...

I am now known as Flyboy.

Greece isn't getting out of it scot free. It's economy is junk status right now. And I'm sure they're gonna have to offer a pound of flesh down the line when the economy is going well again. Italy probably won't take it for fear of what ramifications it will suffer in the future.

@Baff: I already made that thread. And got clubbed by economists too.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/11/01/f-greece-austerity-measures.html

So I'm looking at the austerity measures and the one that angers me the most are the tax measures.

There isn't a single demand for increasing high income tax brackets or corporate tax. Instead all the new taxes are either directly hitting the poor (like sin taxes and basic exemption), or the middle class (like the household tax and VAT). Where is the part where the rich pitch in?

If I have this straight, a combo of politicians and bankers screw up Greece through lies and financial fraud, then they levy a bunch of taxes on the poor/middle class, and cut their services, in order to pay for those mistakes?

In Name Only them socialists, eh...

Step 3: And then install a corporate-military fascist apparatus.

I'm a skeptical squirrel

Gee, this sounds familiar.

Apparently I am adorable, but my GF is my #1 Groupie. (Avatar by Dreki-K)

It should. That's happening in most Western Countries right now.

They are still trying to save this Laissez-Faire idiocy from fading into the past.

These measures they do just keep injuring economies though.

Thin air and lots of loaned Euros apparently, they were cooking the books since 1974

Dutch Lesbian

Yes and no. Yes in the sense they do have something they can front for collateral (no the Coliseum and the Roman Senate building don't count), no in the sense it's nowhere near enough.

In business terms their situation is like a construction firm putting up a fleet of nearly-fully depreciated and old (but still functional) company vehicles as collateral for a loan but their balance sheet is heavily skewed in favor of liabilities. Sure they have assets, but no bank in the world will consider them a safe, guaranteed payback loan.

Maybe they can just put Bunga Bunga Guy in prison and rob him of his money. No where near enough, I'm sure, but it'd be cathartic for those who seem to hate Berlusconi's guts...

More seriously, I think its more complicated than that or they would have gone after Italy first rather than Greece.

The G20 agree to boost the IMF's funds in combating debt in countries such as Greece.

Dutch Lesbian

^^ It's called Italy is a First World economy and the perception they are junk will doom the nearby First World economies in France and Germany.

Remember to the Germans, Greece is very far away. Italy not so much.

edited 4th Nov '11 7:39:00 AM by MajorTom

That would just give France and Germany MORE impetus to save Italy first, not less.

Except they see the ripple effect happening. Italy won't yet default at the end of this year, Greece very well could.

Greek social problems mount

I don't know if you guys saw this but the debt crisis in Greece is causing all kinds of social problems such as higher suicide rates

Dutch Lesbian

The difference is the types of loans that Italy and Greece took on.

Everybody knows what Italy's debt is actually like, so banks were more cautious in loaning to them and their bond terms are spread over a wide time frame. Greece on the other hand borrowed like crazy on fake economic terms, so they were immediately overextended and with bond terms that were very close together. They had a lot of their debt come due all at once, except there was no money to pay it. This is compared to Italy that has no money to pay back the loans they have, but they're more domestic and they can bleed out for a longer time.