Total posts: [460]
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451 AceofSpades17th Feb 2012 03:42:55 PM , Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
I don't think adultery counts for those false pretenses, though. Lying about religion or identity does count for those purposes.

@Aka; adultery is going to be a thing even if we make marriage illegal. Because you can't really stop people from being in committed relationships. Cheating isn't even entirely about sex; it's about the fact that you went around behind someone's back and lied to them and basically stomped all over their emotions. Given that fidelity is a promise in most relationships, it's a breaking of promises. It's saying you don't give a fuck about that other person's emotional state.

And there is of course the fact that cheaters quite often hold up a double standard in the relationships they're in. The whole 'it's okay if I do it because my "needs" aren't being met but how dare you do the same thing?' Part of it is societal; "I'm a man I can't help it" is a trope for a reason, but I've seen it done by women too. Basically, while there are cases where an adulterer can be sympathetic, in this age where marriage and love are largely consentual cheating tends to have much less valid justification.
@Ace: It usually doesn't; the most famous case of "rape by deception" was about an Arab man in Israel who told a Jewish woman who didn't want to date outside the faith that he was actually Jewish. That is, he knowingly and maliciously presented himself as someone he was not in order to get sex. Other good examples are the theoretical "one identical twin posing for the other" and the scene in Revenge of the Nerds where the hero effectively rapes the villain's girlfriend by pretending he's the villain in a mask in order to sleep with her.

Needless to say merely LYING to your partner doesn't cut it, unless they specifically tell you that they wouldn't sleep with you if you had done X. Then you are doing an endrun around her consent, effectively tricking her into sex. But otherwise, lying is just lying and not related to sex at all.

edited 20th Feb '12 7:29:58 PM by BlackHumor

I'm convinced that our modern day analogues to ancient scholars are comedians. -0dd1
453 TheHandle20th Feb 2012 09:14:10 PM from Stockholm , Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
So, having sex with someone under a fake name is okay?
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
454 joeyjojo20th Feb 2012 09:34:11 PM from South Sydney: go the bunnies!
Happy New Year!
Religion is a matter of self identity.

If a man claims to be Jewish (or Hindu or Buddhist) who are we to say otherwise? 
  1. hashtagsarestupid
[up] Well, the problem with that, is that it's possible to be a practitioner of Judaism without being Jewish (the race).
"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
456 TheHandle21st Feb 2012 06:15:30 AM from Stockholm , Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
[up]Basically the same way you can follow the tenets of the Church of England without being a Subject of the Queen. Judaism is a national religion, not a universal one.

[up][up]That is a very fundamental mistake. Religion is a matter of affiliation. It's even in the word, which means re-linking. It involves at least cheering and professing and public endorsement of certain tenets, and at most it completely informs the way your society works. Actual belief is strictly a private matter, since no-one can get into your head to police your thoughts, but people used to make damn sure you faked it somewhat convincingly if you didn't want to be ostracized.

edited 21st Feb '12 6:27:08 AM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
[up]: That's not true; you can be a true Jew even if not a single one of your ancestors was. The conversion process is long, convoluted, and designed to dicourage converts, but you totally can convert to Judaism.
I'm convinced that our modern day analogues to ancient scholars are comedians. -0dd1
458 AceofSpades21st Feb 2012 11:59:38 AM , Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
I could say I'm Roman Catholic to you all I want, Joey. Doesn't mean that I am. It's very easy to lie about religion or ethnicity or whatever. And in some cases I guess it's not that hard to fake the mannerisms, if you know what those are. (I don't know the first thing about Roman Catholicism, by the way. But that could also be a lie.)

That man was proven to be a liar; I know what case Black's talking about. He basically lied to her, then went about his life acting as an Arab. This was not a case of "oh, he's living his religion how he likes." He knowingly deceived a woman after she made it clear what her requirements for a commitment were.
Oh My
I've decided that couples themselves get to define the specifics of what counts as adultery, but you can primarily define it as "Sleeping with someone outside your relationship. Or having a romantic relationship with someone outside of your current one." The second part is added since not all relationships are about sex.

I don't believe it's right. The main issue with it is betrayal of trust. Secondary issue is all the shit it causes. You don't just hurt the person you're in a relationship with. There's yourself and potentially the person you're cheating with, friends of you and the involved...It can get to be a horrid problem and cause large amounts of undue pain or anger for people other than the couple. The adulterer has also shown a lack of restraint and has lied.

If you get caught then the other person has every right to leave you if they want. It's a breach of trust and if you do it once there is a possibility you will do it again. Of course if the person is willing to forgive and try again good on them in certain situations. In others Don't try again. It depends.
If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah
Mister Master
It serves them right for expecting a human being to have sex with one person.

This is ridiculous. If someone thinks they shouldn't be expected to have sex with one person, then they shouldn't commit to a relationship with a monogamous person in the first place. There are plenty of people out there who are perfectly fine with open relationships; if non-monogamy is something you need to be happy, go date one of them. Don't enter into a relationship with someone that you know is looking for a monogamous relationship and then try to blame them for the "unreasonable" expectation that you should stay faithful.

I know like five people have already said what I just did, but it just kind of strikes a nerve when people blame the victim in situations like this in order to justify themselves.
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Total posts: 460
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