Cracking down on racism?

I don't think a crack down is needed. Generally, if someone honestly holds racist views, they are gonna violate the "don't be a dick" rule in some facet at some point. As long as their instances of racism are reported via the holler function, it'll sort itself out eventually.

The system as it is seems to be working just fine.

I remember a bit about everything that went down - I lurked and saw a bit of what went down.

Honestly, I think the issue really came from the user in question showing racism via toeing the line as to what was and was not acceptable. Several racist statements, but veiled enough that they could make excuses for them for the most part.

However, eventually, said user slipped up and inserted a quote from a well-known racist group that was on their website's front page. Someone found it via Googling the quote, and reported it to a mod. One mod spoke up about it because that's all that was needed - one mod spoke for the entire cadre of wiki oversight. Once it was found, the user was banned without further delay.

Granted, it took time, but that's because the mods didn't immediately recognize the quote - and I'm hardly going to fault the mods for not being totally up on racist websites. It may have given one user the warm fuzzies to see the entire collection of mods make a statement about it, but that would have been dogpiling, and they know that dogpiling is even worse when mods do it - even to those not involved, it makes the mods seem like bullies.

Now, given that this user was given multiple chances and made veiled racist statements for years, I imagine OP would make the argument that the mods tolerated his behavior for far too long. At the same time, though, the mods treated racism like they treat anyone else acting like a jerk - some post thumpings, some warnings (as they mentioned in one of the threads about this topic), and giving the user every chance to correct their behavior. Ultimately, the user kept up the problem and was banned. I can't speak to how many did correct their errors due to the mods' actions in similar cases. But I personally feel better knowing that people are given the chance to improve, even if it's obvious that not everyone will take it.

Oh, so this is about that guy? Seriously, folks, we are not the thought police. We allow people to speak their minds and their opinions as long as they stay within the bounds of acceptable standards of debate. When they don't, they get thumped and/or warned. Banning is a last resort.

Again, you have to report bad behavior to us. We would not be able to police every forum thread even with five times the staff, nor do we have any intention to try.

I must confess, I used to be part of the problem. I didn't post racist content but neither did I report it when I saw it I thought that someone else would do it. I haven't had the opportunity to report very often but when I have done so the mods have acted very quickly and in a to me satisfying way. So if you have a problem with content on the forums report it and see what happens, create your own view of what happens instead of trying to change a system based on hearsay and biased second hand information.

I do think the moderation here needs to be tougher on thinly-veiled racism. I've reported a post for racism on at least one occasion and nothing was done about it.

I find that hard to believe. Unless the 'veil' was a lot thicker than you think it was. And I don't think there are any obtuse people among the mods.

edited 19th Oct '11 6:51:42 PM by FastEddie

There's a lot of thinly veiled racism, sexism/misogyny from several users (savage heathen, rottweiler, etc) with a fair amount of overt racism and white supremacism from users, but I see far more posts thumped for calling someone out on such nonsense than the person having any action against them for the racist/sexist shit. There should be nothing wrong with telling someone with a reprehensible viewpoint (and there is no justification for sexism or racism) that they're wrong.

If you see racism, report it.

Report, don't respond.

Yeah, and we do. But nothing.

Why was it relevant that the person who got banned quoted his views from Stormfront? It doesn't matter where it came from, it's still racist.

Acritidiy, there's a line between being a racist and advocating political opinions that others find offensive. We are not in the business of censorship.

edited 23rd Oct '11 8:46:52 AM by Fighteer

So we can't be banned for opinions that aren't bigoted?

Having opinions is not going to get anyone banned. What may get you banned is hate speech; that is, advocating or expressing support for those who advocate violence against groups or individuals on the basis of race, religion, gender, etc.

Note that I am not setting forth a legal standard here. This shouldn't have to be that kind of site and the moderation staff should not have to be your mommy and daddy. That said, if a poster demonstrates their inability to engage in rational discourse, we may exercise our right to uninvite them.

In my opinion, it doesn't matter if they absolutely hate violent groups of any kind. Hell, Shichibukai did that and he was still a racist. They still think people like, for example, me, are inferior based on skin tone.

Look, do I need to make a list? What part of, "don't be a dick" is hard to understand?

It's too vague and easy to get around.

edited 23rd Oct '11 10:12:23 AM by Loid

Any Rules Lawyer will tell you that vagueness is the hardest thing to get around.

"I'm sorry, I always defined dick as X, I didn't know that I was a dick by doing Y."

What about on basis of economic class?

We make allowances for genuine ignorance. However, we have no time for or interest in teaching people the fundamentals of human interaction.

Oh, look, more rules lawyering. See what happened?

edited 23rd Oct '11 11:49:09 AM by Fighteer

@Fighteer

That was because the rules didn't specify.

I think that is covered.

I'm sincerely curious, because I once hollered a post that basically said "rich people deserve to die" and nothing was done about it, as far as I know. If something was done and I didn't see, then I'm just being silly and y'all carry on.

I don't know the context of that particular holler, but I would suspect that the post was not meant to be taken at face value. And at the risk of getting quoted every time someone wants to be a jerk, I don't think "being rich" qualifies as a class of people to whom hate speech laws generally apply.

That said, I didn't see the post in question.

edited 23rd Oct '11 1:05:06 PM by Fighteer