Possible rename suggestion: Bolivian Army Ending

"Merge Bolivian Army Cliffhanger with Uncertain Doom" and "Merge Bolivian Army Cliffhanger with Bolivian Army Ending" are mutually exclusive. So are "Rename Bolivian Army Ending" and "Merge Bolivian Army Ending with Uncertain Doom", I suppose.

If the first happens, we redefine Bolivian Army Ending to the supertrope (and add Our Hero Is Dead as a subtrope).

If the second happens, the supertrope cannot be named Bolivian Army Ending.

I said "some". So some of the others could be done together?

Absolutely. For instance, if we create Uncertain Doom, but we don't merge Bolivian Army Ending into it, we might also rename Bolivian Army Ending, if there's a sufficiently high majority voting for that. Or, if we create Uncertain Doom, we could still merge Bolivian Army Ending and Bolivian Army Cliffhanger with each other, if there was a sufficient majority for that. Or we might end up creating a supertrope, but leaving Bolivian Army Ending and Bolivian Army Cliffhanger essentially as they are, apart from example clean up, if THAT'S how the voting goes.

So far it looks like the only option that has clear support is creating Uncertain Doom as a supertrope.

We should probably give the crowner some time to pick up more votes, but yeah, it's sure looking that way!

13-to-1 seems like a fairly clear consensus; is Uncertain Doom okay as a name or should we try to find another?

"Uncertain Doom" is okay ... not great, just okay (we don't have a definition for Certain Doom).

edited 11th Jan '12 7:53:19 AM by Stratadrake

Just a thought, but it's always possible to draft up a version of Uncertain Doom, then run it through YKTTW to get examples and maybe name suggestions from folks who don't normally venture into the TRS. We don't necessarily have to do all the work here, you know?

But WRT the name, I personally like Uncertain Doom because it's short and has a catchy ring to it. That said, I seem to remember someone upthread suggesting that it was too vague, since it doesn't really define the kind of doom. Would that be a problem?

The characters's doom is uncertain.

I think there could be a better name, but is that better name going to be found in a week? I'd rather see it launched and then renamed later. Lazy, I guess, not sure.

At any rate, if it doesn't happen before tonight, I'm willing to do the work. I use the ykttw, so I'll post a link when it's up, unless I'm beaten to the punch.

Calling. Looks like consensus to make a separate supertrope.

My only question is what do we do with Uncancelled series, and series that planned to continue after a season finale, but became cancelled? Which trope do they go under? Do they both go under the very ending trope, or does one go under the cliffhanger version? If only one, then which one? The one that was supposed to end the whole work, or the one that does end the whole work, even if it wasn't intentional?

I think you put it an example under Bolivian Army Ending if it is the end of the whole work, regardless of whether that ending was intended or not. We don't always know authorial intent, so if it's the end of the series, it should be treated as such. Then, if a series is uncanceled, it can be moved to Bolivian Army Cliffhanger. I do agree that uncancelled shows shouldn't be in both the ending trope and the cliffhanger trope, but it's not that hard to move an example if a series gets picked up later.

A trickier example is a case like Angel, where the TV series definitely ends with a Bolivian Army Ending, but the story gets picked up later in a different medium. Examples like that could be worked out on the discussion page on a case-by-case basis, though.

the television series wasn't supposed to end with that. It was supposed to continue, but it was a Joss Whedon show. This is why I have been arguing that they need to be separate from the normal ending trope. Because these stories are supposed to start again, in a new work.

It doesn't really matter what was supposed to happen, though. Tropes look at what the work is, regardless of intent (since, in many cases, we don't/can't know what the intent was). "It was meant to be this or that" is generally Trivia (eg, What Could Havebeen).

Sure. So, seasons 1-4 of your favorite show get made. Season 4 ends with an Uncertain Doom. Then a comic continues the story for three more "seasons", before ending with another one. Then a movie gets made that exists in-between the tv show and the comic. it also has Uncertain Doom for an ending. The creator really likes the trope. Which category do these go in?

Edit: oh, and you didn't know the movie would be in-between, everyone thought it would take place after the comic.

Edit2: my point is that we know it is the end of the season (or novel) but don't actually know it's the end of the work.

edited 11th Jan '12 2:17:21 PM by crazysamaritan

Trope up: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=ofi0m98m4l0nptb83a16d9p1

Collected all of the mid-work examples from Bolivian Army Ending and moved to Uncertain Doom. Checking Bolivian Army Cliffhanger, now.

No misuse for Uncertain Doom found.

Thanks for all the work you've done on this. The YKTTW is looking good.

Bump. Whatever happened with this?

I got busy off-site. I think this could be closed now, or whenever I get the Uncertain Doom launched.

We need to get it launched and then fix all the examples and wicks that are currently for Bolivian Army Ending that should be Uncertain Doom instead.

edited 28th Jan '12 4:17:28 PM by NativeJovian

Right. We may also want to add a note on the Bolivian Army Ending page making it clear that non-ending examples go in Uncertain Doom.

When I do launch Uncertain Doom, I'm going to start a new thread to discuss Bolivian Army Cliffhanger by itself. There's a lot of examples that are mixed between that and Ending. I don't mean just clear misuse, I mean things that were correct use that became incorrect use later.