Ableism

"Idiot" and "moron" began life as medical terms.

Most surely. Because not being able to hear is a loss. It can be adapted to, no doubt about that, and it is possible to lead a good life with it, but it is still a loss. Of course, this one is not going to advocate forcing anyone to fix their condition if they don't want it. But if an option of cure exists and is widely available (widely enough that noone is locked out of such possibility due to low income or being born in the wrong country), then it becomes a choice and as such, is not necessary has to be accommodated by society.

You haven't read much about Deaf Culture have you? I think you would have a hard time finding a single person who was deaf from an early age that would agree.

I've only ever seen autism used as an insult once, in a MMORPG that was infested by what people called "autistic player killers".

I met someone in real life who used the phrase 'sperging'.

edited 14th Sep '13 6:04:46 PM by storyyeller

"Idiot" and "moron" began life as medical terms.

They aren't now. They're used as either insults or criticisms. Plus, Idiot meant "politically unknowing" (a term used to describe peasants in particular) in many areas when the term was new.

Ugh, those comments about disabled people pissed me off. I'm not even disabled, yet those people really make me roll my eyes. It's not a disabled persons choice that they were born deformed, it's not their fault they got horribly burned due to an accident.

I wonder what it'd be like if the ""abelist" (god, I hate that term) tropers knew what it was like to be disabled.

This troper Has always had issues with pictures of birth defects. Not so much disfigurements from an accident or something, just anything congenital or genetic. There's just something about humans being born looking inhuman that makes me feel like nature isn't to be trusted, and the world is a really squicky place on a primordial level. I saw a commercial for some Discovery Channel show about The Elephant Man when I was around eight, and... Well, needless to say, I didn't watch Discovery for a while after, and that commercial was literal Accidental Nightmare Fuel for me off and on for years after. Which probably means this is more like Nightmare Valley for me.

I really wonder who made that post. It's rather silly to think that nature can even be "trusted" in the first place when we're part part of it.

Whoever wrote that...

...Nope. I'd better not say anything. I wouldn't be kind.

I have a deaf friend who has a cochlear implant, but he rarely uses it. It can be disorienting and overwhelming. Can you imagine not hearing a sound for most of your life and then suddenly "throwing a switch" and suddenly being bombarded with a completely unfamiliar set of stimuli? It would be painful and frightening. So I can understand a deaf person being reluctant to receive such an implant.

I'm disabled too - I have Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy, meaning I have hardly any physical strength at all and I'm permanently wheelchair-bound. As far as "ableism" goes, I've had very few bad experiences. I have been mocked and insulted a few times, but that was honestly mostly by kids who had some mental issues and weren't really capable of understanding why that's such a terrible thing to do. I'm not really angry about those particular incidents, but in general nothing makes me more insanely furious than insulting a disabled person because they're disabled. That's not okay. Not even a little bit.

I've been fortunate to have friends who have always been very accepting and kind and non-prejudiced. Honestly, the worst thing I can say about my friends when it comes to my disability is that they can be overprotective. Don't get me wrong, I like that they look out for me. But sometimes a situation that makes them angry on my behalf seems trivialor even amusing from my point of view. I really noticed that in High School. One particular incident stands out in my mind, since I find it simultaneously hilarious and heartwarming. It was winter time and I was outside with a group of friends, and inevitably they started throwing snowballs at each other. Two awesome/hilarious/heartwarming things happened. First, my friend Tom was standing beside me and we were having a typical nerdy conversation. I looked up from to see a stray snowball hurtling towards my face, totally by accident. I barely had time to register the snowball when Tom nonchalantly reached out midsentence and perfectly intercepted the snowball...which exploded and covered me in snow anyways. But it was the thought that counted, and I was impressed by Tom's ninja-like reflexes. A few minutes later, I felt a snowball hit my side and looked over to see the culprit. This time it wasn't an accident, the guy meant to hit me but I didn't mind overly, it's not like it really hurt or anything. My friends obviously felt differently, since seconds later about six snowballs hit him. My friends were fighting back for me, I guess.

I'm not sure what the point of that story is, but I like telling it. I mostly find overprotective friends amusing, but I can see why other disabled people might be offended or at least find it irritating.

Do the rest of you have any thoughts on overprotective friends? Any disabled Tropers have similar experiences?

Overprotectiveness can be annoying. But, outright hostility is worse, to my mind.

However, when the protectiveness gets to the point where somebody is taking my decisions and actions out of my hands rather than helping me deal with what I need to get done? That ticks me off.

I'm fine if somebody asks me if I need the help, even when I think it should be fairly clear I don't. That's just them being polite, if ill-timed. I feel like blowing up when they assume I need it and don't even bother to ask if I can manage, though, and just go ahead. Often enough, they do something I really didn't need and which gets me in hot water somehow. <_<

What's worse, though, is if I'm perceptively struggling... but, nobody helps: or, if they do offer help — it's not the kind I need. -_- Even if I ask for the specific help. That beats smothering hands down.

edited 14th Sep '13 10:10:35 PM by Euodiachloris

One time a teenaged kid (about 15 or 16) started following my nearly-blind little cousin around the neighborhood and threw stuff at her. I told the guy to knock it off before I called the cops. A little over protective, but a good way to scare him away.

Slight change of track, but am I the only one who thinks "ableism" is a really dumb-sounding word? There has to be a better name for this shit.

I'm not deaf, I just have a moderate hearing loss and I wear hearing aids. I've run into a lot of people who try to avoid mentioning it in the silliest ways. I've been referred to as "auditorily challenged" once. Trying to tiptoe around a disability doesn't tend to make much sense to those who are disabled, especially if, like me, it's from birth. Not being able to hear well isn't exactly a loss for me, since I don't actually know what it's like to naturally hear like everyone else.

Yeah, I've had the super overprotective friends. In the stupidest situations. One guy even tried to get the class to learn sign language, without telling me. Again, I'm not deaf. I don't actually know sign language. I first got hearing aids when I was 3. At most you might need to speak up or repeat yourself. It's like the volume control in my brain is turned too low. That's it.

Throwing snowballs is just for fun. Unless you're putting shit in it. But throwing other stuff, that's just mean or dangerous. Yeah, ableism is really a bad word for it. Sounds really stupid, but it can actually very serious. Then again, homophobia and racism kinda sound stupid too if you think about it, but they're much more widely used, so that might be it.

@Bag Rick: I wouldn't even call that overprotective. Beating the guy up might have been overprotective, but scaring him away sounds like the right call to me.

What kind of jerk throws things at a blind person, though? That's...ugh, that's terrible! What an idiot.

Yeah, that's not actually helping, it's just controlling. Well-intentioned, perhaps, but not the right way to handle things.

Yeah, I wasn't worried about the snowballs. Throwing stuff at a blind or nearly blind person? That could be very dangerous.

I actually did throw him into a little tree, but other then that he left well on his own.

Slight change of track, but am I the only one who thinks "ableism" is a really dumb-sounding word? There has to be a better name for this shit.

I agree 100%.

I still think that there is a difference between treating disabled people with respect, as full citizens, without prejudice based solely on disability and arguing that disability is not a disability but a type of human diversity.

Seen a rather interesting (if a bit longish) article on that topic

http://wallsmirrors.blogspot.ru/2006/05/deafness-is-not-disability-argumentum.html

What I understand the least are the arguments for preserving the Deaf culture, namely, how it pertains to children. I can easily imagine that for an adult who lived all their life with disability, suddenly "correcting" it might be disorienting, overwhelming and generally inconvenient, so of course, even in situations where cure is available, the choice of an adult person should be respected.

But if the parents refuse treatment for their child in order to preserve the culture? While the culture might as well be rich and rewarding - in no way I intend to claim otherwise - it would still offer the child much less opportunities to leave it should they want it. Their future will be tied to disability culture in the way many able-bodied children are not beholden to that of their parents. In addition, just like children can grow up multilingual or multicultural (they tend to handle it much better than adults), there is nothing preventing the parents from sharing their culture with the child without at the same time insisting that the child should carry disability through their lives.

I don't think anybody here is advocating the extreme wings. And, there are many of those. You see them with all kinds of conditions or problems. <_<

Personally, I think it's bonkers: if a cure comes up and children can take it without getting disorientated, let them have it. Take advantage of the brain's plasticity when in childhood! They'll still need to learn about the culture you're so keen to advocate... as they will need to interact with you and will need to keep the fact that their own children might inherit the condition in mind, too.

Either deafness is a disability or most of the human race has superpowers.

I don't think being deaf or blind is an inherently bad thing for all people everywhere. I'm not sure why some people take offense to that idea.

As for the suggestion that having the same disability as your parents irrevocably ties you into their cultures, that's ridiculous. There's no single worldwide homogeneous deaf culture, or whatever. There's as much variety as with any other people.

edited 23rd Sep '13 6:36:05 PM by CassidyTheDevil

The idea that a disability isn't actually a bad thing can come across as very insulting to someone who has that disability and doesn't feel that way about it. If you're deaf and you don't want to be deaf, having someone tell you it's just another part of human diversity could be very hurtful.

I have a hearing loss. It is a disability. It causes problems. Yeah, there's a deaf culture, the problem is that quite a lot of human experience is based around hearing. If something about you means that you miss a sizable chunk of culture (say...music) it is a disability. Sure, some people might not mind, but speaking for me personally, if someone offered me a way to hear just like most people, I would jump at the chance.

A disability is not like skin color which is completely meaningless in any important way. It is a disadvantage compared to the average person. It does not make me worth less, but it does cause problems.

For me, it's mostly annoying. My hearing aids give me feedback whenever an alarm goes off, and you know that noise that apparently people above a certain age can't hear? It makes my hearing aids screech so loudly that everyone else can hear it.

Also, people who tend to look away or cover their mouths when they can talk? I partially lip-read to understand what you're saying. It's why I tend to have the TV so loud, so I can make out what it's saying. If you cover your mouth and look away, I have a hard time understanding you. Try listening to someone through a door. It's kind of like that.

edited 24th Sep '13 6:55:30 PM by Zendervai

There's no doubt that a lot of people don't like having a disability, and it does have its own issues that need dealing with. But having things to work around is a human universal.

The assumption that it must be horrible thing for everyone at all times, everywhere, regardless of whether you actually mind is pure nonsense. No, being disabled does not automatically your body is malfunctioning machine which we should try to "fix" regardless of your wishes. Seeing disability as purely physical problem to "cured" instead of seeing the problem is really with how society deals with disability has disastrous consequences.

The fact is, there is no "cure" for disability and there won't be for a very very long time. The fact is, more than likely you will become disabled at some point in your life regardless of whether or not you are now. Yes, there are drawbacks to being disabled. No, that does not automatically mean it's an awful thing for everyone everywhere.

The individual determines whether it's a bad thing for them, not anyone else.

edited 24th Sep '13 6:18:15 PM by CassidyTheDevil

I am surprised this thread has gotten as long as it has without people asking to what degree of disability we are discussing here.

I work at a state institution for people with various levels of developmental disabilities, which means I have people with various levels of physical, mental, and emotional disorders in some combination that requires them to live in a controlled and supervised environment.

Some clients are so articulate and mobile you would think they are employees. Others? You wonder how the hell they survived the night.

While I am all for respecting people, regardless of their capacity or capability, we cannot sit here and say that disabled isn't a bad thing. It is. The level of how bad it is varied, but it is foolish to say it isn't bad because as soon as we say it is just another form of normal, we stop treating it as a problem to be solved on many levels of society.

You can still love someone and respect them while still acknowledging that they have been born or aquired a negative health condition they have to deal with. The best way to show this is to have realistic but helpful attitudes and expectations in how you treat them.

Disability is entirely relative to the abilities of other people, which can vary considerably. There is no species ideal for any characteristic, every possible human phenotype is just as a legitimate expression of our heritage as any other, good or bad.

With many disabilities, there's literally no effect whatsoever on the disabled's happiness, according to studies. Sure, if someone becomes paraplegic through an accident, they're depressed. Often they tell their doctors to euthanize them. But six months later or so, they're often just as happy as before.

What would makes something a disability isn't the inherent physical properties of the disability in question. That's meaningless. It's the person's physical abilities compared with other people, and how that negatively affects their position in society.

We can counteract the later almost entirely, with education and accommodation. It needn't be a bad thing, we are all fallible, limited and imperfect. It's all how we deal with it.

edited 24th Sep '13 11:53:45 PM by CassidyTheDevil

I have pretty bad eyesight, but if I refused to wear my glasses in order to be part of the "partially sighted culture" people would think I'd gone mad. I don't really see any difference between that and the whole "deaf culture" thing.

Unintentional subtext: "And, you're pathetic if you start complaining about a need because you should be flexible and cope like this other person here. Pull your socks up.". <_<

Yes: disability is a part of life — every life. Yes, this needs to be acknowledged more. But, "normalising" it in that fashion is not an answer.

Disability is already normal. It's just feared and little understood because people don't really talk about it.

edited 25th Sep '13 3:14:37 AM by Euodiachloris

In a lot of cases I don't want disabilities to be considered normal, maybe expected based on certain percentages, but not normal.

We don't really understand and have the best education system for people with developmental disabilities.

Like I have several clients who would have been much better off if their parents had treated them more normal and disciplined them consistently instead of enabling them, they could have turned out better. They still would have never lived on their own or even talked, but at least they wouldn't need antipsychotics to manage their tantrums.

No one seems to mind advocating for the physically disabled or saying someone with CP is human too. These are very good causes and we need to support them.

But we also need to do something for our institutionally disabled. Both for their sake and society as whole.

I have pretty bad eyesight, but if I refused to wear my glasses in order to be part of the "partially sighted culture" people would think I'd gone mad. I don't really see any difference between that and the whole "deaf culture" thing.

I think the difference is that deafness impacts social interactions. Deaf people have their own languages, so it really is a separate culture, unlike with vision impairment.

Oh, really? So it's not the fact that I can't walk, or dress myself, or lift my arms above my head or go pee by myself that makes Muscular Dystrophy a bad thing? That's meaningless. That's not a problem at all. Or is it only a problem because I think it's a problem?

You're telling me that my disability isn't inherently a bad thing. You're saying the social effects are worse than the physical disadvantages. "It needn't be a bad thing." I don't mean to be rude, but ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING?

Look, I don't know what you're perspective is. I don't know if you have any sort of disability or not. But I do. I know what my life is like. Don't you dare tell me my disability isn't an inherently bad thing. It is a bad thing.That doesn't mean my life is a waste or that I want to give up and be euthanized, and it doesn't mean I can't be happy. But don't say it's not a bad thing. Because it is.

I apologize if I've overreacted. I'm not trying to pick a fight. But you're saying things I don't think you really understand.