The Satanism Thread

Well, apparently we do not have one! I didn't realize until one of my topics that so many people would want to talk about it, so I think a thread devoted to it is in order.

I've found myself occasionally mentioning something in passing about Satanism on the forums and I realized that the only way to stop my thoughts from wondering to it is to vent all my thoughts about Satanism in one thread if I feel so inclined to talk about it on Tvtropes.

So, whether you are a theistic Satanist or a symbolic Satanist, this is the place for you!

Non Satanists can also post here, it would be silly to not let them; just be careful how you word certain questions. Some of us don't like questions about hollywood Satanism or things that imply that we are reverse Christians. Many can get annoyed with those two kinds of questions. Anything else should be perfectly fine though.

REGIE SATANAS!

AVE SATANAS!

edit: so far I havn't seen anyone else admit to being a Satanist... I'm sure that I'm not the only one here but come on' guys =p after over 200 posts now and still im the only one open about it seems odd.

edited 31st Oct '11 9:50:24 PM by jasonwill2

OK, semi-serious question: How does non-theistic Satanism differ from Objectivism, other than by sounding "edgier"?

edited 9th Oct '11 5:41:13 AM by silver2195

uhhh... *looks up objectivism*

hmm. it seems that there are more than one kind on wikipedia.

Well... i would assume that objectivism doesn't have rituals, the "intellectual decompression chamber" as La Vey called it. La Veyians view rituals as a way to release thoughts and desires that would otherwise stick in their minds and bug them all day, so they release them in rituals.

Is that the kind of difference you were looking for? I really don't know what your talking about so it makes it kind of hard for me to answer your question. I think I heard that word used before for when one was talking about La Vey's influences on his writings.

He (she?) was probably looking more along the lines of a difference in content and doctrine, rather than ritualistic trappings.

I'm a he. To be clear, I'm asking how non-theistic Satanists differ from Randroids in terms of beliefs.

ya... im not a La Veyan and the only work of his I've read so far is the Satanic Bible. I don't know which kind he's talking about, there are at least two kinds on Wikipedia that looks like it could be what he was asking. i cant really answer it the best i can say is to read this article on the Satanic Bible as it lays the dogma for them, and to just compare: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Bible

Wait... dont use that link some fucker deleted most of the page, it was all there about two weeks ago, a complete summary and everything of the doctrines. Must be some self-righteous troll.

Though here's a question for anyone out there that i always wondered; why does the Church of Satan almost always deny that any other group has a claim to Satanism? That seems like a really pissy thing to do when other forms of Satanism existed before frikin' 1966.

edit: i found which one you meant. it doesnt look all that similar to any form of Satanism to me. someone else is probably more qualified to answer this question, as i do not want to give a dumb answer again because quite honestly I have no idea what your really talking about.

edited 9th Oct '11 6:02:53 AM by jasonwill2

Going by the write-up by Nemo, it seems that the difference boils down to Satanism valuing subjectivity much higher than Objectivism does, not being bound-up in the moralism of the latter philosophy.

Satanism and Objectivism concentrate on different things. Objectivism seems to be more about seeking knowledge and Satanism is more about being strong person.

La Vey never claimed to have invented modern Satanism. Those who say he did either try to make their brand of Satanism more legit or just don't know their history.

EDIT: That too.

edited 9th Oct '11 6:26:46 AM by sveni

My outsider's impression of run-of-the-mill Satanism is that it's basically Tit For Tat turned Up To Eleven. If anything, it seems ethically superior to Randian Objectivism in that it doesn't openly advocate screwing people over just to prove your points. However, calling it Satanism is kind of a troll move, since as far as I can tell the ideal doesn't really have anything to do with the Satan of Christian mythology.

Where does Objectivism "justify screwing people over"?

Dude, have you read Ayn Rand's work?

Yes. What did I miss?

However, calling it Satanism is kind of a troll move, since as far as I can tell the ideal doesn't really have anything to do with the Satan of Christian mythology.

Well La Veyan Satanism sees the domination of the weak by the strong as being ethical, and celebrates more "eye for an eye" and selfishness type of morality, so that's just about the opposite of the Christian view. In that case, the "Satan" moniker makes sense. If you know anything about Christianity, a huge part of the morality is to turn the other cheek, to humble yourself, to do everything through charity. So if you had to make a religion which (metaphorically) represents Satan, it would be to the opposite of those ideals, afaict.

Objectivism and Christianity come into similar conflicts.

I have yet to read The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged, but what I've gleaned is that Rand advocated "rational selfishness," i.e. everybody does whatever helps them most, and fuck everybody else, and because everyone is doing it, it all ends up positive in the end. Something about a "great chain" or whatever and then Adam Smith's "invisible hand of the market."

Bioshock did a very good job of portraying it, actually, from what I know of the philosophy itself.

I take it Satanism isn't keen on humanism?

Er, there are many forms of Satanism. It seems most people's exposure is to La Veyanism and occasionally some idiot thinks it give a free to dickery.

I read The Satanic Bible and no where in it does it actually advocate being a jerk to everyone. It actually says "do unto others as they do unto you" as a modified Golden Rule. It advocates vengeance for actual wrongs, not wanton ass-hole-ness (is that a word)?

I myself "do as you would wish them to do unto you" for about the first week I know someone, then default into "do to them as they do unto you".

So essentially I'm going to be an nice person, but if you turn out to be a jerk I will have no mercy in letting you know every time you make a dick move that you are a waste of a human life and should make some changes to your life unless you want to live a lonely person.

Edit: but to actually answer your question, Satanism in general is VERY humanistic, La Veyanism is essentially 'hardcore' Humanism with a good measure of trolling and being overly blunt with an eye for eye attitude

edited 10th Oct '11 3:22:41 AM by jasonwill2

I agree with karalora that it's a deceptive name. It'd be so much easier to convince people that you're not talking Hollywood Satanism if you know, it wasn't named similarly to the supposed antagonist of a major religion.

I mean, I get that it's the use of symbolism, God commanded Lucifer to do something he felt was wrong, and thus said no. Causing this whole hullabaloo in heaven. In the sense of Freedom from authority and following what you feel is right, rather than what you are told is right it is I suppose admirable, but this is merely conjecture based on faint gleanings here and there.

edited 10th Oct '11 5:12:23 AM by Lanceleoghauni

thing is some Satanists actually worship/revere satan... though i agree that the laveys do cause confusion with it, but the church of satan is adament about the name for some reason

edit: say though, does anyone have any good theistic sources? I personally use theisticsatanism.com a lot, but its only one source, and recently it *seems* to have been hit by malware or at least a troller falsely reported it as such. the owner ive only talked to once i think when she accepted me into her facebook group but thats about it.

edited 10th Oct '11 5:57:10 AM by jasonwill2

@OP: this is the wikipedia link you are looking for:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Satanic_Bible&oldid=450170806

edited 10th Oct '11 6:06:18 AM by SavageOrange

wait its being revised? lol i was hoping that was the reason it was hacked mostly apart

and why are you linking to star wars too?

"Those aren't the droids you are looking for."

''Well La Veyan Satanism sees the domination of the weak by the strong as being ethical, and celebrates more "eye for an eye" and selfishness type of morality, so that's just about the opposite of the Christian view. In that case, the "Satan" moniker makes sense. If you know anything about Christianity, a huge part of the morality is to turn the other cheek, to humble yourself, to do everything through charity. So if you had to make a religion which (metaphorically) represents Satan, it would be to the opposite of those ideals, afaict. Objectivism and Christianity come into similar conflicts.''

Too much Hollywood Satanism in this post.

A religion that bothers to specifically state to leave animals and kids alone (whereas The Bible doesn't directly adress it, although the NT implies children should not be harmed) seems counter-productive to ruthlessness.

Anyways, being theistic or La Veyan, Satanism is always about individuality over conformity.

Interestingly enough, Theosophy sees the entity identified by the christians as Lucifer as an important figure in its cosmology, yet it is never truly considered Satanism. It is also very ascetic, unlike the more hedonistic satanist brands.

edited 10th Oct '11 8:37:23 AM by Gannetwhale

i dont think i heard of that branch before, it sounds like a Luciferian branch to me though by how you described it.

though I found some narm recently when looking for some pictures for a video series on satanism im making:

I don't care how serious you are if you don't find this cute/amusing at least a little something isn't right. Though the kitty in question is kind of fat. It's like lolcats and Satan has joined forces!

edit: ??? it wont let me post it. darn

edit: ok, found a less direct way to the same pic. this site, fifth proposed caption for the kitty, thats the second row center

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9036026@N08/sets/72157606598265160/detail/?page=6

edited 10th Oct '11 9:10:35 AM by jasonwill2

Too much Hollywood Satanism in this post.

lol, its lifted straight out of La Veyan Satanism though. These are the Nine Satanic Statements, in the Satanic Bible:

• 1 Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!
• 2 Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!
• 3 Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!
• 4 Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!
• 5 Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!
• 6 Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!
• 7 Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all!
• 8 Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!
• 9 Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!

5 in specific, represents vengeance and "eye for an eye" as opposed to "turn the other cheek" (which is Christianity's own response to "eye for an eye" morality). If you need a more direct example there is the If a man smite thee on one cheek, smash him on the other! line from the Satanic Bible Many of the rest are also similarly rejections of Christian doctrine (or what they percieve as Christian doctrine) which, I find, makes the name of Satanism fitting—its very much a response to what he perceives as Christianity, and 1, 4, 5, 8 and 9 are the most blatant reactions as such.

Here is another direct quote from the Satanic Bible: "In this arid wilderness of steel and stone I raise up my voice that you may hear. To the East and to the West I beckon. To the North and to the South I show a sign proclaiming: Death to the weakling, wealth to the strong!"

And I could give quotes from Satanic writers espousing the same ideals, and the ethical nature of the strong to dominate the weak. It's not "Hollywood Satanism".

Humanism tends a lot more toward the collective, and La Veyan Satanism is very individualistic (in the same way Objectivism is), though it may be possible to mix the two.

Also lol @ the NT "implying" you shouldn't hurt children. The NT says you shouldn't hurt anyone, so specifying children would make no sense. Since La Veyan Satanism actually does advocate stuff like "smash the guy on the cheek" and "if someone in your lair annoys you, show no mercy: ( ) it might be necessary in that case to ensure they aren't hurting kids or whatever.

edited 10th Oct '11 4:38:09 PM by Tiph