Once Upon A Time

I was waiting ALL episode for him to say SCIENCE

Me Too!.

That was totally despicable what Rumpel did to young Regina with Jefferson and Victor Frankenstein AKA Whale's assistance. Kind of retrospectively makes you more understanding in regard to nasty things she did toward them.

Wondered if the writers may be familiar with Fullmetal Alchemist in regard to Whale's interest in bringing a brother back and losing an arm.

So, what was the orb? The thing Jefferson brought to Rumpelstiltskin when he referenced the slippers(the Ruby Slippers from OZ, more than likely)... I'm curious as to what it was supposed to be...

@Swish

I assume The Witch's Crystal Ball.

I thought that was only in the movie, which Disney can't reference.

I'm not sure if a crystal ball is ever mentioned (I think it's a telescope in the book), but I know they can't mention the ruby slippers.

Does that mean no Oz?

They did do One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest without incurring legal wrath...

They can still do OZ. It just means using Silver slippers to show the audience, instead of Ruby ones. Assuming they show them at all...

That said, there isn't much issue with securing the rights to books written before the '50s(since almost all are public domain)...

Les Miserables? Les Miserables? Les Miserables?

Don't see how that would fit into this genre. Then again they slipped Cuckoo's Nest in so who knows. Personally I'm praying for Dracula. Vampire Regina would, IMHGO, amp up the Evil Is Sexy quotient to Beyond the Impossible levels.

edited 29th Oct '12 5:41:06 AM by tricksterson

Well, if they ever go to Victorian World I'm sure they could slip them in.

So by Whale's way of crashing into Regina's session, I guess she knows about his Brother. So there's more to see about this tale.

Including how he got back to Fairy Tale Land out of Victorian Literature Land.

But seriously, I like the nice highlight of us watching the Present Regina get progressively more good as we watch past Regina get progressively more evil.

That was fantastic. I'm loving Regina's character arc. And, gosh, how heartbreaking is it that she thinks she can earn Henry's love?

Also, notice the contrasts of white and black in her clothing.

...

ditto.

I really need to read Frankenstein.

OOOOOOOH.

Nothing to add that hasn't already been said except: the ending with Rumpel & Whale was interesting. I thought he'd ask for a favour or something to reattach something as important to Whale as his arm, yet Mr. Gold accpeted a simple "I need Magic"? Not sure if I'm supposed tot ake it as his starting to become nicer or his simply being too proud to let a chance like that go by.

The latter.

Rumple has always been "nice"(so long as you don't hit his berserk button)... But it was Whale's parting shot in FTL that demanded Rumple's pride to require that statement as payment...

edited 29th Oct '12 8:43:03 AM by Swish

nah, it's because half the point of this show is that magic trumps science. you just need to lie back and drink the kool-aid, man. faith over reason. explosive magic rather than figuring out your own problems. you just gotta believe. it's why emma's gun keeps failing, why it came down to what emma was willing to believe rather than the evidence of her own eyes.

Because faith and rationality don't mix, obviously. That's why there aren't any religious scientists. -eyeroll-

edited 29th Oct '12 8:49:14 AM by Maridee

I don't think that's really the point. I think it's mostly to keep Magic the main plot device, to avoid such things like "why don't you just shot it"

Also, magic has nothing to do with faith when it has hard rules like this one. :/

edited 29th Oct '12 9:25:16 AM by MrAHR

No, it's exactly like that. Remember how Emma had first to believe in magic before she could see that Pinocchio was turning into wood? She couldn't trust the evidence of her eyes. Observation is one of the most crucial elements of the scientific method. It wasn't enough to have an open mind, and let the proofs follow; she had to believe in things she couldn't see. The closest she came to believing was with the Mad Hatter, who comes from Wonderland - the place where logic stops making sense. She stepped over the line between skepticism and faith when Henry was close to dying, and most parents will tell you that seeing their child in danger makes them desperate to the point of irrationality. Emma tries to plant a bug, it gets sent back to her; she brings a gun, it gets crushed. Magic just dances all over the laws of nature in mad glee.

Magic here does have rules, but as far as I can remember, they are a) belief is crucial for it to work and b) there's always a price. It seems that as long as you have access to magic, you can do pretty much whatever you want, short of forcing love and raising the dead. If you don't have magic, the best you can do is talk to someone with magic and hope they're benign - almost like supplication to the gods, really.

The thing is, I'm a fan of The Dresden Files, so I know that magic and science can be integrated peacefully. And it bothers me so much when people tell me to turn my brain off and just believe. It's as if they want me to absorb what they're saying without thinking too hard about it.

...I think you're over thinking it. The reason Emma had to believe was so that they could have a season of plot with Emma still not knowing. Most of this comes from mechanical needs, not any reason to separate faith and science. Remember, everyone referred to Victor's brand of skills as "magic".

I'd much rather overthink something than underthink it. Besides, implications and philosophy and worldviews are interesting to me. I like deducing and inducing and thinking and using my brain, and I like mulling over the things I watch. Pulling them apart to see them tick, and then seeing where the threads don't match up and the plotholes are.

mm. I don't think it was all that necessary? I mean, just because they did it that way doesn't mean that's the only way to do it. If they'd let Emma be a good detective, I think her deciding what to believe and what not to believe would've taken up the season. In the end, the only reason she didn't believe was because the plot said so. And that's not a good enough reason for me.

The people who called Victor's science magic didn't really understand science as a concept, tho. They called it magic because that's what it looked like to them. It's not like they had electricity in the Forest.

I understand wanting to see how it works, but you can't claim things that are there that simply aren't. You have two trains of thought: what was intended and Death of the Author. Either are fine to consider, but it's not a good idea to present Death of the Author as what was intended.

Frankenstein was pretty much magic; the thing was apparently an allegory for if man could reproduce without females, plus some nightmarish memories of Mary Shelley's.