Why does China still support N Korea?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44808274/ns/world_news-asia_pacific/

I get that back in the day these two nations were tight...but China isn't exactly Maoist anymore, so why does the Leadership in China continue to support North Korea? I just don't understand what practical purpose it serves, not when the North Korean regime is so appalling + potentially screwloose enough to possibly suck China into a war that they don't want.

Anyone have a decent explanation as to why China still supports their crazy backwards neighbor to the North?

The short answer is: mutual economic interests.

Last time I checked North Korea wasn't exactly an economic powerhouse. Heck, their main export appears to be the tears of starving children, but China's got its own supply of that...

You misunderstood what I said. China has uses for North Korea; North Korean citizens are none of its concern. North Korea might not be an economic powerhouse, but that doesn't mean that China still can't gain from having them as an ally.

edited 6th Oct '11 11:24:16 PM by tropetown

I don't see North Korea being economically helpful when it's in such dire need for humanitarian support that it needs to properly give to its citizens.

And considering how China was, along with Japan, South Korea, Russia and US, part of the Six Party Talks that the North rejected, I doubt that the reputation of North Korea is that good.

Obviously there is something that China is getting out of it, otherwise they would not be supporting North Korea in the first place. I know for a fact that the two have strong economic ties; there may be other reasons I'm missing, here.

I heard that due to its strong military, it's an arms dealer. It also produces coal.

That would make sense. It would also be, as I stated before, an economic benefit.

I think it's an economic benefit because of those trades; otherwise, it's only a hindrance and a threat to North's neighbors.

edited 7th Oct '11 12:10:49 AM by abstractematics

1 > If NK collapse, China will be flooded by refugee

2 > To prevent America have military base at its doorstep

3 > Old alliance and friendship, China fight in Korean War, and there are still a lot old man in China that think its glorious war.

4 > To annoy / intimidate SK and America

5 > Some part of China near NK border have significant Korean minority and previously part of Goguryeo Korean Kingdom. Unified Korean might have idea of revanchism.

6 > China culture already greatly influenced by SK. Unified Korea with powerful economy and democracy near china will have greater influence.

These.

I've actually heard they'd be willing to let the country be unified under the South, but America would have to keep it's troops out. Yea. Right.

Didn't the Chinese say a while ago (around the time that North Korea bombarded a South Korean island with artillery) that they'd be willing to let North Korea dangle if it tried anything stupid just so long as American troops didn't put boots on the ground in North Korea?

Dunno, might be misremembering it.

^ You (and they) know that's impossible. NK starts something that re-ignites the Korean War, the US will have boots pushing to the Yalu River.

The only way we're not going to be involved on the Peninsula is if S. Korea tells us to go home and that's not going to happen.

Why, though? The South Korean military is one of the best in the world in terms of equipment and completely outclasses the Norks. There's no reason to suggest they couldn't win a ground war by themselves if US support was limited to airstrikes and the like. I don't really see why the US would insist on pushing its own troops as far as the Yalu given what happened the last time.

Treaty obligations and the fact that despite how advanced the S Korean military has become they are still outnumbered 4 to 1 militarily. (S Korea can call up ~2 million military forces in everywhere, N Korea can do at least 8 including irregular outfits.)

Numbers do play a significant part in war. You can beat straight quality forces with straight quantity.

True, but the addition of a few thousand US troops to the South Koreans isn't going to add much when faced with that kind of number anyway. Even if you somehow magically managed to deploy the entire troop strength of the US military, that's still only about ~3 million total allied forces against ~8 million Norks.

edited 7th Oct '11 5:13:49 AM by pagad

That's better odds than 8 million vs 2.

While North Korea's army is ultimately inferior to the South, the initial North Korean attack would wreck untold devestation on the South Korean countryside. Seoul, one of the largest and most significant cities in the world, would be reduced to rubble in the first few hours of fighting due to sheer numbers.

It would be rather unpleasant.

Anyways, China's support is due to many things. One of the major reasons is that they still feel responsible for North Korea because it is a state that they helped create. The people see it like a rebellious little brother and they simply cannot bring themselves to abandon it yet.

Only assuming you managed to redeploy all US troops from wherever they were in the world to the Korean peninsula.

As it stands, a few thousand extra warm bodies is a drop in the ocean.

If allied forces are outnumbered, it stands to reason they'd use their technological advantage to its maximum potential, surely? The best way to deal with that ~8 million would be to destroy the logistical infrastructure that supports them, and then just watch it implode. The US and South Korean air forces would easily be capable of establishing aerial supremacy over North Korea, given that the Nork air force is nothing but old Soviet monkey-models.

edited 7th Oct '11 5:27:39 AM by pagad

Here's a couple of good military comparisons. One thing is fairly certain - the war would be truly horrible as both sides would be fighting for their homeland and all they hold dear. Both sides would probably lose pretty much everything. NK has a vast network of missiles aimed at every significant settlement in the south. It has enough plutonium for eight nuclear weapons, which they could deliver either as dirty conventional bombs or (unlikely but possible) as primitive nukes. NK's famine would explode in intensity. Both sides have prepared for decades for invasion. The US would probably not want to insert troops into that meat grinder.

Ninja'd

edited 7th Oct '11 5:29:15 AM by betaalpha

And it does have the potential of dragging everyone else in the already tense region into the Chaos — if North Korea attacks Japan, then the JSDF might get involved etc, etc...

In essence, North Korea's leadership at least recognizes that they are going to lose in any prolonged military skirmish so their strategy is to bring as many people down with them as possible in the event of a reignited Korean War.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they had some biological weapons pointed north.

No one really wants to have to deal with that so the status quo remains. Besides, unification with the South would be an absolute nightmare. There would be so many rebellions and Juche resistance movements.

edited 7th Oct '11 5:38:08 AM by Pentadragon

I think by the time they reunify, there won't be an NK population left since they seem to be shrinking at an alarming rate.

Question for the thread: Since China is still backing the regime in Pyongyang, why don't they force them to reform the same way they have and create a viable trsde partner? Wouldn't it be less of a burden (and indeed, perhaps some profit) for the Chinese?

Why doesn't Canada get the USA to reform many of it's stupid laws? Because it's another country. One doesn't have much power over the other.

Philipe posted most of the reasons, some of it speculation, other stuff being well-established facts. China doesn't want an American jr to it's side but they're willing to accept a Korea free of Americans. That's their main issue. They don't mind korea, they don't even mind if the North were gone (their relationship is not about China helping North Korea to stab America in the eye, it's to block the Americans from gaining more power in the region than they already do with South Korea and Japan).

The best solution to China's problems is an independent unified Korea. China is willing to let its military alliance treaties with the North slide, if the US lets its treaties lets it slide. But, if you got guys like Tom in charge, that's never going to happen because Americans would flood the area as soon as a conflict happens and China has no choice but to enter the war.