American Horror Story

Women springing together to take down the psycho murderer in their house and instantly abandoning their infighting, or better yet women being the active and central agents of the story who don't need to be saved by men, but instead save themselves and each other, and drive the plot with or without the male characters?

Fuck yeah sisterhood.

edited 23rd Jan '14 5:53:08 PM by LMage

How's the show an endorsement of sisterhood when the characters maintain that it's only the province of other female characters to hurt the female characters? Protecting the coven so the coven may self-harm. Again I ask: whither sisterhood?

They're empowered, sure, but this show is wanting in other feminist concerns. The fact that the cast is as mad as a pack of frogs, and spend a lot of time crippling and hobbling each other is an incredibly fucked up idea of feminism.

It comes across as a case against giving women power and autonomy, because they'll inevitably go mad and become corrupted. That's fucked.

edited 23rd Jan '14 6:48:34 PM by Nicknacks

I think that's not the case because they are women- it's the case because well...It's American Horror Story.

I mean, look at last season: It didn't matter who was running the Asylum, it just became progressively worse and worse. Same with the Murder House, hell if anything Mr Harmon's attempts to be "the man of the house" are arguably what caused his failures in the end, just like it was Timothy Howard's apathy (and apathy of the system in general) that was the root cause of most of Asylum's problems.

It's not saying that women invariably go mad and become corrupt- so much that everyone invariably goes made and becomes corrupt. IT's just the cynical nature of the show.

And, actually, by comparison- with the women in charge of things, The Coven has done way way better then the Harmon family or the Asylum at this point in either of their series.

I understand what you're saying, but the concessions that you give the show don't make it feminist.

Really? I mean there are some pretty damn strong feminist things- keyly the power of women working together. The moment Marie and Fiona teamed up the patriarchy stands in didn't stand a chance (and it was glorious), and sure the girls fight amongst themselves in this last episode (over some pretty valid reasons at that) but the moment their safety is genuinely threatened all the witches spring together like lighting to lay out the Axeman with easy.

The show keeps sending this message- when women stand together they can and will win their battles, and are just as powerful as any group of men.

You keep using that word...

I would hardly say that its feminist. Feminist has always been about equality of genders, not 'Women are better/more powerful/etc.' or any such. Its been more 'Women are equal to men'.

Anyway, I don't see it all women being evil to each other as being the issue of this season, really, just gender-flip the cast (which would have the typical gender-ratio of most shows) and it would never be commented on, so I see no issue.

I feel that the issue is that, well, often times, their bitchy nature and evil acts really just don't have much reason behind them or anything. It comes across as For teh Evulz with out any actual purpose behind doing so.

Another issue I've seen is that it feels like we take a lot of time either going nowhere or really backtracking... A LOT.

Like, Cordellia lost her eyesight, but gained a sixth sense. And then she gets her eyesight back, but looses the sixth sight. But, then she gets depressed (because she can't think of any better way to help the coven and, at this point, I find it strange that her mother's words affected her like this) and cuts out her eyes to try and get the sixth sight again. Wait, why did we need to keep going back and forth with her character? It feels so inconsistent and rather annoying.

Another one, Madame La Laurie keeps swinging between her regretting what she did, or hates blacks, but then has gotten over her racism, to not thinking she did anything wrong, almost every other episode. Its rather confusing and, assuming that these constant jumps are intentional, I wish it had been reflected on or acknowledged a bit more as to why? And, considering she's now dead-dead and it doesn't seem like the next episode will have space for her to come back, I don't know why the writers kept jumping back and forth with her.

BTW, What is with all these plot-important character dying off-screen?

Another thing that seems to be backtracked on is death in general. Madison died, but was brought back. Kyle died, but was brought back. The Axeman's ghost was killed and... he came back? I'm still confused a bit on that one. Myrtle was burned and then brought back. Queenie literally cannot die, as well as Lalaurie and La Veau (Or, until this passed episode I suppose). Then the creepy butler died, but then he came back two episodes ago and wasn't mentioned again. I was waiting all episode for Nan to return, but she didn't. Speaking of Nan, wasn't she killed off so that Fiona couldn't die? But now she's dead, so I'm a bit confused...

I'd like to think most of this would fall under Death is Cheap, but this comes across more as Death is Meaningless and we're just adding more unneeded drama because we're just going to bring them back again later despite all the drama around their death.

It feels like almost any development that is made is quickly undone. It doesn't know where to go.

Sadly, I feel like the series finally hit its stride this past episode, or for me it did, which is upsetting when there's only one episode left.

Hopefully, Season 4 will be more evenly paced?

That's a message the show has touched on, but the show gives more consistent air time to the coven being a pack of selfish, backstabbing, wretched people who kill babies and commit vigilante justice and extreme acts of ultraviolence. I don't see how the show can be seen as a reclamation of female power when said power is wielded so deplorably, against targets just and unjust alike.

The show stuffs itself with (highly entertaining) retrograde sensationalism, and as such, I feel, makes unintentional mockery of female empowerment by connoting it as equally outlandish. If the female characters retained some measure of humanity against the tumultuous absurdity they've become mired in I'd certainly be willing to offer the show as a transgressive representation of female empowerment, but such as it is, Coven's just transgressive, and these women aren't bad-ass, for the most part they're just plain bad.

edited 23rd Jan '14 9:50:26 PM by Nicknacks

That's why I kind of wonder if it's a satire of female empowerment stories.

All the interviews Murphy gives makes it sound like his intention with Coven was to endorse female power, and to sympathetically represent the struggle for equal rights (whether in terms of gender or race). I tend to think that Murphy's not a particularly satirical writer (the Madison speech about her being all that Gen-Y is gives a pretty good idea about what he thinks of as effective social commentary), but I'm curious as to why you'd think the season was satirical.

If Coven is feminist, it kinda seems one of those Tumblr feminists who go by Kill All Men and stuff, because this season the male characters have been treated like third-class citizens at best.

You mean like how female characters are treated in basically every other show? Shocking isn't it.

That doesn't make it RIGHT. And should I mention the fact that so far ALL OF THEM have died, some of them TWICE? Kyle is the only male still alive in the Coven universe.

...Oh wait, you think that THIS season, the one that all but SCREAMS 'women with power are EVIL' is a feminist season.

edited 24th Jan '14 12:26:21 PM by PersonalPOV

Didn't they outright say in the episode that they can take care of themselves and just shoved Kyle aside to deal with the Axeman? That screams Radical Feminist to me, and I mean, I'm all for empowerment, but there's no consistency with that message this season.

I mean, we have Queenie getting it on with the bloody Minotaur, which screams female neediness. While I've no doubt Marie and Fiona could've taken on the witch-hunters on their own, it was the Axeman that really did it. Kyle's the only person capable of "comforting" Madison post-resurrection. Hank probably has the highest kill-count of any character wiping out the whole voodoo clan. Luke was one of the few sympathetic guys around. Delphine only succeeds because of Spalding's help, likewise with Fiona. Marie's power stems entirely from Legba (who I'm assuming within voodoo culture is male, but if it's just a male manifestation than disregard that).

Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of strong empowering moments among the predominant female cast, and these are some tough independent women; but to pretend that the males haven't accomplished anything...idk, it just seems more degrading to these strong female characters when they're so busy fighting each other, that their male champions are actively trying to help them move the plot along - like Hank or Spalding - which make them come across as much more "proactive," and oddly - sympathetic. Look at Hank and his father next to Fiona and Cordelia; tell me which relationship seems more "empowering." They've just missed the mark I think, assuming that's the mark they're trying to hit.

Maybe all will be revealed next week?

Yes, he is male in voodoo culture.

The Finale was just sort of ok. Felt like Madison and Misty were just sort of killed because they couldn't figure out what else to do with them.

I loved the finale- Misty's death in particular slayed me. But really the whole...thing- the ending sequence.

Coven defiantly had one of the brightest endings for the show so far- and I love it. I'm not 100% I will watch the next series (it honestly depends on the theme) but this...this has been a brilliant and fun season of televsion. It wasn't the dark masterpiece of "Asylum", but I still like "Coven" far more. Maybe it wasn't super deep and complex, but it's moments that hit hit hard, and it's characters where amazing and strong. (And also I've just always loved the Witch genre of fiction)

I am going to miss looking forward to this every Wednesday night. I'm adding Miss Robichaux's to that list of special fictional places I will come back to when times are hard.

edited 30th Jan '14 12:16:49 AM by LMage

Oh god. "You're a bad actor". That was an unnecessarily ugly moment.

Well, that was an underwhelming finale.

I can't say I hated it, but after 11 horrid episodes and a So Bad, It's Good one, I feel like this season was a gigantic wasted opportunity, not to mention awfully sexist. It was like watching Glee, but with the genders inverted (for those of you who don't know, Glee is pretty much uncomfortably misogynistic now); a good episode might come out every now and then, but it's only good in comparison to the others.

I did guess the Supreme correctly, though.

And I don't know why, but I hate the final scene. That felt really flat as a darkly comedic ending.

edited 30th Jan '14 3:57:47 AM by PersonalPOV

Season 2>Season 1>Season 3.

Pretty much, yeah.

Couldn't disagree more honestly- season 1 was very much the worst.

It wasn't meant to be a darkly comedic ending, it was meant to be a bright hopeful moment.

I meant Fiona's hell. And no, Coven is the absolute worst season of AHS, bar none.

We'll have to agree to disagree I suppose- though rattings have been higher for this season then any other.

edited 30th Jan '14 10:24:15 AM by LMage

Ratings are not always a sign of quality. If they were, The Good Wife would have ratings through the roof.