A challenge I intend to put somewhere in a story (possibly)

At the moment, I can only conceive of having the robot eliminate one bad portal (or if I'm damn lucky, it's the fun one) — so it leaves me with 50/50 chance with the other two.

Well, without the bug, it's this:

"I designate the doors as A, B, and C, from right to left as you face them, robot. IF A is the Awesome door, say "True"; IF B is the Awesome Door, say "False", IF C is the awesome door; do not say anything."

edited 4th Oct '11 10:10:58 AM by Madrugada

Also, you can't give orders to the robot. Sorry. You're not too far from the answer, though.

edited 4th Oct '11 10:18:29 AM by Teraus

So the trick for the unbugged problem is to phrase the question in such a way as to produce a "True" answer if one specified door is the awesome door, a "False" answer if a second specified door is the Awesome door, but if the third door is the Awesome one, the first two statements produce a paradox, and the robot can't accurately answer either "True" or "False" and therefore doesn't answer at all.

Hmm...

edited 4th Oct '11 10:36:06 AM by Madrugada

Bingo. It doesn't have to be a paradox, though, just impossible to answer.

edited 4th Oct '11 10:41:31 AM by Teraus

Frankly, that's a difficult enough problem that I think adding in the bug is serious overkill.

But it's awesome. The answer is so beautiful.

Too many people solved it without the bug.

edited 4th Oct '11 10:42:15 AM by Teraus

Who were the people you tested it on? You may be running into a selection bias, there. No one here has got it, and this board attracts a wide diversity of people of all levels if logical competence.

Putting something in a story that you expect the reader to be able to figure out but which is hair-pullingly frustrating for a lot of them isn't a good idea.

I tried it in a brazilian Orkut community about logic and in the Flash Flash Revolution forums. Well, it's for a character... If the readers don't want to solve it, they can just keep reading and see the answer the character came up with. Or, if they don't want it spoiled but want to continue reading, I could put it in an appendix. It's better than having informed difficulty in the story, I guess.

edited 4th Oct '11 10:51:05 AM by Teraus

I reprogram the robot with a salivation factor; whenever it is put in the presence of fun it prepares itself for an awesome buffet. "Come to me!" it begins to blurt, as its artificial intelligence becomes overwhelmed by a simulacrum of natural instinct, and it hauls itself through the fun door. The trick is to jump in right with it, or else you are doomed to this empty room - with portals leading to the enduring torture of librarian dusty book sorting, and Idaho respectively.

edited 4th Oct '11 11:03:02 AM by QQQQQ

^^ The logic community is going to definitely produce selection bias — the fact that someone is active in that community indicates that they already know, understand and like this sort of thing. FFR, I don't know.

But it's supposed to be really difficult in-universe...

Can't the bug problem be solved by just saying "A bug will not occur AND (everything else)" ?

Since the robot knows the answer beforehand.

Unfortunately, no. In that case, if the bug does occur, he will say "true" no matter what, because the first statement is false and a false statement AND a true or false one will always result in a false answer. With the bug, it becomes "true".

Ooops, I was appling the change at the very beginning so it was True plus something. Stuuuuuupid.

edited 4th Oct '11 11:42:48 AM by Dealan

Keep trying...

Am I allowed to open the robot up and use my mad science skills to know whether or not it's bugging out when it answers?

edited 4th Oct '11 2:28:36 PM by jagillette

It either requires some complex math/programming knowledge, problem solving skills, or thinking outside of the box.

Can you move the robot?

Well... I don't think that's relevant, but maybe you can.

Maybe, but that wouldn't solve the actual challenge, which is finding a statement which works in this condition. In the story, at least, programming will not be an option because the robot is too complex for that.

There's a much easier way that doesn't require mad programming skills.

edited 4th Oct '11 2:31:30 PM by Teraus

Portals are labeled A, B and C.

"If I take portal A, I will end up in the good place, because the two portals that take you to the bad places are next to each other."

If it's true, I win.

If it's false, it's B.

If it can't answer, it's C.

That doesn't work. The robot will always refuse to answer, because of how the first part is worded. Yes, door A might be right, but if it is it isn't because the 2 boring doors are next to each other.

Any answer has to start with you addressing the robot and saying, "In a hypothetical situation in which you had enough energy to qualify my statements indefinitely and in which I gave the following statement, you would answer thus:"

From there, you have to account for 18 different scenarios. 9 for bugs, 9 for no bugs, 6 for each door, and 6 for each answer. And all of these have to be tied together into one statement that will be answered true, false, or not at all.

edited 4th Oct '11 2:49:48 PM by jagillette

They have to be if I label them in such a way that portal B is in between portals A and C.

Then, assuming B and C are the bad portals, they are indeed next to each other.

If A is the good portal, it's true.

If B is the good portal, the entire thing is false.

If C is the good portal, then it's impossible to answer, because one part is false, even though the main part is true. Because I'm not saying "B and C are the bad portals," I'm merely saying that the two bad portals are next to each other.

edited 4th Oct '11 2:51:56 PM by MrAHR

That's not the cause and effect, though. Portal A isn't good because portals B and C are bad, portal A is good because someone decided that it should be good.

Actually it would depend on the order in which the portals were installed. One portal is what it is because of the other 2 that came before it.

...what the hell are you talking about. We were told one portal is good, two are bad, and they're in the same room. It's quite impossible to not have them be next to each other in some sort of way (even if they are all on separate walls).

Chronology has nothing to do with it. I'm just talking about physical coordinates here.

edited 4th Oct '11 2:53:47 PM by MrAHR

Here's a solution: replace 'because' with 'and.'

Except you haven't accounted for the bug.

edited 4th Oct '11 2:55:53 PM by jagillette